III Percent Patriots
Alan Gottlieb is being given (and taking) credit for being instrumental in the Toomey-Manchin deal.
Gottlieb is a felon who managed to have his 2A restored via ATF years ago.
He has always been seen as an enemy of the Left. They made sure his Wiki page always pointed out his past convictions.
Yet with this deal, suddenly his Wiki page has been scrubbed of his former convictions.
Am I accusing the man of selling out 2A to return to the good graces of the Establishment?
Don't know why he did it, but it certainly feels like a sell out.
ReplyDeleteAs for the Wiki thing--it doesn't say much for your side's honesty that they use wikipedia edits as a form of activism--exposing the dirt of those they dislike and scrubbing the dirt of those in their good graces. Usually, right wing and libertarian people get called paranoid for suggesting that such things happen, but here you are admitting it and asking if it happened again here.
Where did I admit anything or ask anything?
DeleteWell, I didn't click the link, so I didn't realize that was all quotation of the vile bastard known as Kerodin.
DeleteStill, you asked if Gottlieb sold out and posted this excerpt, so it gives the impression that you're offering this as an explanation you find plausible.
No, not necessarily.
DeleteI said "gives the impression", not "tells us." If you want to avoid the impression, your own commentary would help.
DeleteThis is exactly why I find Wikipedia articles to be useful in so far as they go, but not typically reliable as sources without independent verification.
ReplyDeleteTo address your main point, though, both our sides have fundamentalists and pragmatists. The more bitter this debate gets, the fewer of the latter each side will have.
"Gottlieb is a felon who managed to have his 2A restored via ATF years ago."
ReplyDeleteYes, he was convicted of underpaying his taxes thirty years ago. And he went through the legal procedure required to regain his right to possess a firearm. Are you saying then because of his criminal record he has no right to engage in this debate? Or that his motives are in question?
Should we then apply this standard to spokespeople who advocate in favor of stricter gun laws?
For example, the Mayors Against Illegal Guns has been challenged recently to keep on their toes to promptly remove members from their list when they commit crimes, some involving firearms. Perhaps its to be expected that when you gather enough politicians in one place you're going to run into this problem. There is even a website to list them, http://www.stopillegalmayors.com/
Or perhaps this Pastor who helps organize protests at gun shows, but who also happens to be a registered sex offender.
http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/8759
Obviously, the past history of the person speaking will have an effect on the reception of the message. The question then is as what point does the past have a bearing on the credibility of the speaker. For example, you make a point of including Gottlieb's being a felon in your post. Can you tell me why you consider it germaine to the subject?
You're a pretty awful mind-reader. I've said many times that white-collar felons should not lose their gun rights. I also believe they should not take up prison space.
DeleteThe reason I posted this is because I found it interesting how vicious the 3%ers are towards a fellow gun-rights person.
People are always vicious toward someone they feel like sold them out--especially when they feel like they were winning. After all, look at all the trouble they're having getting the votes for Manchin-Toomy. Do you think the pre-compromise deal really stood a chance?
DeleteAs for the 3% site you picked, Christian Kerodin, or whatever alias he's currently using, is a convicted felon who bloviates about who all needs to be killed when the balloon goes up. He tries to justify the hypothetical murder of the families of federal law enforcement if a civil war were to start. The man is a bloodthirsty animal.
There is speculation that his bloodthirsty talk may all be an act, and that he's really a federal snitch trying to suck in unstable types with his violent talk, but that doesn't improve my opinion of him as such a tactic is likely to push some of the impressionable, unstable folks into actually committing some of this violence.
I agree with you completely on this.
DeleteGottlieb support withdrawn.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/04/robert-farago/safccrkba-gottleib-withdraws-support-for-manchin-toomey/
He saw the direction the wind was blowing and is trying to avoid having this crash onto his head.
DeleteHowever, after some of the poor drafting and bad deal making in the "compromise" bill, the man has lost my trust. He's probably permanently lost the trust of others considering the Zumboing going on on the intarwebs.