Monday, October 13, 2014

Toy Gun or Real Gun? Wal-Mart Fatal Shooting has Ohio Lawmaker Inspired

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Protesters rally in Beavercreek earlier this week following the shooting death of John Crawford III by police last month. Federal officials announced Wednesday they will review Crawford's death after a Greene County grand jury said the officers' actions were justified. (AP Photo/The Daily News, Ty Greenlees)

Cleveland dot com

A state lawmaker says he wants to explore potential ways to help first responders tell the difference between weapons and toy guns following the fatal shooting of a man by police inside an Ohio Wal-Mart this summer.

Republican Rep. Rick Perales of Beavercreek told The Dayton Daily News he is open to ideas about preventing incidents like the Aug. 5 shooting in his hometown.

A special grand jury in the racially charged case has decided that the Beavercreek police officers' actions were justified. Police responded to a 911 call that a man was waving what appeared to be a rifle. Officers have said John Crawford III, who was black, was shot after he didn't respond to repeated commands to drop his weapon.

It turned out to be an air rifle. Crawford, 22, had been talking on a cellphone and carrying the air rifle he picked up from a shelf as he walked through the store.

The newspaper reports that there are no state regulations for the use and sale of air rifles, BB guns and others that resemble deadly rifles. Federal rules require airsoft guns -- which are different from air rifles -- to be sold with an orange tip to avoid confusion with real guns. But that regulation does not apply to BB or pellet guns.

Republican Rep. Wes Retherford of Hamilton called the Wal-Mart incident in Beavercreek an "isolated" event. He said the private sector should decide how to package and sell such merchandise.

"If we're going to start locking everything up that poses a potential risk, that would be a lot more items locked up than just a BB gun," Retherford told the newspaper. "Eventually, you're going to be locking up everything in the store."

26 comments:

  1. This actually looks like a textbook case of Swatting. Of course, we aren't hearing much about this, but its been out there for a while.

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/07/ohio-black-man-killed-by-police-walmart-doubts-cast-witnesss-account

    "When Ronald Ritchie called 911 from the aisles of a Walmart in western Ohio last month to report that a black man was “walking around with a gun in the store”, he said that shoppers were coming under direct threat.
    “He’s, like, pointing it at people,” Ritchie told the dispatcher. Later that evening, after John Crawford III had been shot dead by one of the police officers who hurried to the scene in Beavercreek, Ritchie repeated to reporters: “He was pointing at people. Children walking by.”
    One month later, Ritchie puts it differently. “At no point did he shoulder the rifle and point it at somebody,” the 24-year-old said, in an interview with the Guardian. He maintained that Crawford was “waving it around”, which attorneys for Crawford’s family deny. "

    “He didn’t move,” said his father. “He was stood so still, in fact, we thought the track had actually stopped. I asked the technician ‘what’s going on?’ and he said ‘Well, the reel is still running Mr Crawford, look at the time’.”
    Ritchie, on the other hand, stated that at this stage, Crawford was “pointing [the BB rifle] at things, like moving things around the shelf with the gun.”


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    1. The point of my post is that realistic looking toy guns are a problem for police.

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    2. "The point of my post is that realistic looking toy guns are a problem for police."

      But Mike, it wasn't a "toy" gun. Those are required to have an orange tip to show that its a toy. This was a BB gun, people that often think of as a toy, but can cause serious injury and even death.
      But then, as was mentioned in the article, the person who called gave misleading information to the police to make it appear that he had a real firearm. I wonder if an orange tip on it, as would have been present on an airsoft gun would have made a difference.

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    3. You're right. "Toy gun" is being used too loosely. When I say "ban them sumbitches," I'm talking about all the realistic toy guns as well as the others like BB guns that are not considered firearms but should be.

      Also, I would be quite pleased with legally considering them true firearms and applying my proper gun control laws to them too.

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  2. The BB gun here wasn't the problem. The problem was the son of a bitch who SWATed this guy, calling the police and reporting him as walking around aiming the gun at people and loading it with ammunition--both claims proved to be completely false once the video was finally released.

    Of course, you prefer to ban BB guns rather than call out the people on the gun control side advocating such SWATings.

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    1. Why don't you blame the trigger happy cop too while you're at it? Anything to keep the focus off the gun.

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    2. I posted another comment later where I mentioned that the cops are lying about their supposed "repeated commands" to drop the gun. Watch the video--they pop around the corner, yell "drop it" and then start shooting.

      Yes, the cops are to blame, and yes, the caller is especially to blame as it is obvious, from the video, that he was lying and that there was no danger to anyone.

      This isn't about taking focus off the gun--the gun had nothing to do with it. This is about pointing to the parties who were responsible for the death of an innocent man who was just shopping at Wal-Mart.

      You are trying to take responsibility away from the cop and away from the caller by complaining that they were in genuine fear because of the gun Looking realistic--in spite of the fact that the guy wasn't doing anything to put them in fear at all--he was standing there comparing items on the shelf in lawn and garden, not doing anything even potentially threatening.

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    3. The only thing I can figure is that you are so offended by the existence of BB guns that you have been blinded to the horrible injustice here, or that you just look at the video and see a "threatening black person" with a gun and it makes you piss down both legs--of course you can feel for the caller and cops and understand their fear of such an obvious danger--it must be the gun's fault--otherwise you'd have to point at skin tone and reveal what underlies your obsession with race.

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    4. Cops killing people with toy guns is a serious problem. You keep diverting the attention away from the real problem, availability to realistic looking toys.

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    5. You keep harping on that ridiculous issue that isn't even applicable to this case, and completely ignoring the fact that the problem here was not a panicked person who mistook the BB gun for a real gun, but a lying asshole who committed murder by proxy by lying to the police and winding them up, and the cops who got into shoot first, ask questions later mode.

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    6. It was the cops fault. To listen to some idiot without checking for themselves first. We would be in pretty bad shape if cops acted on the first report of any incident before they got on the scene and made their own determination. You want to blame it on some 911 caller HA HA HA HA HA

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    7. Wow, this troll has no reading comprehension.

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    8. WOW, this troll has no clue whose responsibility it is to make a determination at the scene.

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    9. Anonymous at 8:11

      You mean the Cops have a responsibility to determine what's going on and to not shoot an innocent?

      Gee, maybe that's why I blamed them too--repeatedly . . . Including in the comment your response came directly under.

      Mike is the one trying to blame the gun and ignore the blame held by the caller AND the cops for their respective actions.

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    10. HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
      You are cute when you get angry.

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    11. I'm not blaming the gun. And I'm not exonerating the 911 caller or the trigger happy cop.

      The fact is, however, if realistic looking BB guns were controlled better (or banned outright) this could not have happened.

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    12. Even if we applied your "proper gun control laws" to this BB gun, the guy could have still purchased it there at Wal-Mart and been subject to the SAME lies and same police overreaction. Requiring a background check before he could buy the gun would not have prevented this, and claiming otherwise is ludicrous.

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  3. Well, Mike, since you said you would talk about it next time it comes up, do you care to explain what you mean by “ban them sumbitches”? Are you really calling for making the possession of BB guns and toy guns illegal with no grandfathering for little Jimmy’s beloved 2012 Christmas present?

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    1. That's a reference to this previous post.

      http://mikeb302000.blogspot.it/2011/11/ban-them-sumbitches.html

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    2. I'm not finding an answer to my question in that thread. Do you wish to ban bb guns and toy guns with no grandfathering.

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    3. The realistic looking ones, yes.

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  4. Oh, and repeated commands to drop the gun? Bullshit. The tape shows what happened.

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  5. The SWAT guys have some blame. Don't they know a BB gun from any other kind of gun? The average Joe doesn't, he just saw a guy with a gun and called police. It's the police who should know the difference and hopefully have been trained to know the difference.

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    1. The average Joe should know what pointing a gun at children means, yet he said Mr. Crawford was doing that when the tape shows that he wasn't.

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  6. Well... The dewd was black. Better safe than sorry when it comes to black people, right?

    Sarcasm, just in case anybody thinks I'm one of them.

    I think the guy who called 911 should either be charged or maybe have a hearing in which he could be committed to a hospital. It was like a dark comedy listening to the things that he told dispatch while watching what the guy was actually doing synchronized in real time. "He's pointing it at people!" "He's loading it!" "I'm not sure." "He just pointed it at two children!"

    I would imagine that the SWAT team was pretty ginned up to picture a black dewd menacing and brandishing at the local walmart. They didn't waste much time wasting their victim. If calls to drop your weapon were repeated, I don't think they were repeated more than once or twice.

    This crime reminds me of my visit to the Poway Big Five yesterday. Grandkid spots the sporting goods store. Knows he can score the Kendama he wants. I start kidding around like I want to buy a gun. I see the BB and pellet guns. Then I see real rifles. I honestly try to lust after them. Like I wanted a BB gun when I was eleven. They just look so fucking useless, I can't believe my eyes. Some of them have cooling fins. Real commando stuff.

    They were up on a wall with zip ties. Behind an employees only glass counter. At least five feet between where customers were allowed to walk and where they hung.

    Walmart is responsible for this atrocity. They had guns on shelves like skateboards or soccer balls.

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    1. Don't worry Junior. Much as we disagree on various points, we know you're not a racist like the people who post things about "threatening black people" with guns.

      Gotta disagree about Wal-Mart's culpability, but you're right on about the caller, but there's little to charge him with--at least nothing serious enough. We should consider anti-SWATing laws that make the caller responsible for any damages that occur as if they committed those damages with malice aforethought.

      As for the cops, I understand them being wound up, but it doesn't absolve them of their behavior, shooting almost immediately.

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