Mass shootings, as American as apple pie?

You would hate to think that mass shootings are incredibly common in the US.  After all, it seems that only the biggies seem to make it to the press these days since the topic is beginning to seem like an Onion Article: "we'll only cover them if 20 people, make that 30 people, no 50 people died".

I thought there actually was a definition of this term, but there doesn't seem to be:

Broadly speaking, the term refers to an incident involving multiple victims of gun violence. But there is no official set of criteria or definition for a mass shooting, according to criminology experts and FBI officials who have spoken with Mother Jones.

Generally, there are three terms you'll see to describe a perpetrator of this type of gun violence: mass murderer, spree killer, or serial killer. An FBI crime classification report from 2005 identifies an individual as a mass murderer if he kills four or more people in a single incident (not including himself), typically in a single location. (The baseline of four fatalities is key) Source

That may be why there is a "mass shooting" where 12 people are shot, but they don't die.  It doesn't really make the news either.

If we are going to come up with a number, there is this site which comes up the the number 200 for the period from 1 Jan 2014 to 17 Aug 2014.  I'm sure that number will be questioned, but it is a lot.

Part of the issue with the open carry movement is how much does it prevent or promote the occurrence of mass shooting in the US?  Actually, we can say that for either open or concealed carry since the big argument for more permissive carrying of weapons is that they somehow stop crime.

On the other hand, if it ends up enabling mass shootings, is it such a great idea?  And let's face it: there is a lot of gun violence in the US.

One thing I've been see a lot in the comments on Kroger's facebook page are the pro-gunners saying that a business could be sued if it is a gun free zone and there is a mass shooting.  Their claim is that the business is liable if an armed civilian could have stopped the shooting.

But, the whole matter hinges on how foreseeable the event would be.  As U.S. District Judge R. Brooke Jackson said in regard to the litigation around the Aurora Cinema shooting "I reiterate that this court is in no way holding as a matter of law that Cinemark should have known of the danger of someone entering one of its theaters through the back door and randomly shooting innocent patrons."

Wouldn't the issue be if the business made it easier for a mass shooting to happen by allowing the instrument of destruction onto their property If the matter hinges on foreseeability?  In other words, if a business allows a person to bring a weapon of war onto their property and a mass shooting happens because of that--it would then be liable for what happened.

Likewise, one would have to be able prove that an armed civilian would have actually stopped the event, which hinges on both the foreseeability that an armed civilian would have actually been present and the actual ability of armed civilians from stopping mass shootings in the past.

Given situations such as the Columbine Shooting where the shooters engaged an armed Jefferson County Sheriff's deputy and other mass shooting incidents where armed citizens were present, yet did nothing to stop the incident (e.g., the shooting in Tucson where Gabby Giffords was shot).  There seems to be a significant evidence problem in proving that an armed civilian would stop anything: even if they were present.

How many Mass Shootings REALLY HAPPEN in the US?

Let's use the FBI definition=four killed [or wounded] not including the shooter.

That means that incidents like this are mass shootings, but they never make the news:

Tuscaloosa shooting at Copper Top bar leaves 17 wounded

 Seventeen people were transported to DCH Regional Medical Center and five were admitted for their injuries, DCH spokesman Brad Fisher said at 9:10 a.m. Two are in the ICU, with one in critical condition and one in serious condition. Three others are in regular care and are listed in fair condition. Twelve victims have been treated and released.

 How long will it take before people realise that firearms are a problem in the US?

BTW, here are the latest verified GV stats:


Anybody keeping track of the mass shootings?

Update on One of Our Many U.S. Mass Shootings

The fraud and deceptive practices by the Banksters share in the responsibility for this tragedy.  So does whoever let this guy get his hands on a firearm.


I'm always struck by the fact that people with guns believe, deeply, that they have the right to their firearm, and that they are acting reasonably and morally, even when they do the most heinous things.  You NEVER hear someone admit they shouldn't have or had a gun.  You only hear or read their justifications to themselves and others.

It causes me to distrust the gun loons telling me how correct they are in when they would shoot, and then they demonstrate in their comments how poorly they understand firearm safety and how badly they understand when shooting someone defensively is appropriate.  On that basis, they pose a danger to all of us.

This guy NOT having a firearm would have prevented a mass shooting.


From MSNBC.com and news services:

Report: Gunman behind Southern California Edison rampage was facing foreclosure

Ringo H.W. Chiu  /  AP

Police officers at the scene of Friday's shooting in Irwindale, Calif.

NBC, msnbc.com and news services

updated 12/18/2011 6:46:49 AM ET

LOS ANGELES — Authorities were searching for a motive Sunday as they named the 48-year-old company employee who shot four people, killing two, at a utility office east of Los Angeles.

Investigators said Andre Turner of Norco in Riverside County methodically picked off his co-workers with a semiautomatic handgun Friday before turning the weapon on himself inside a complex that houses more than 1,000 Southern California Edison employees.
NBC Los Angeles reported that Turner was facing possible foreclosure on his home.
Citing real estate website zillow.com, the Riverside Press-Enterprise reported that Turner's 5,000 square-foot home was purchased in 2004 for $711,000. It was reportedly put up for sale in November for $590,000.
Turner's death was ruled a suicide, Los Angeles County coroner's Lt. Larry Dietz told The Associated Press. He had worked at Edison for seven years, utility spokesman Steven Conroy said.
The two other men killed were Henry Serrano, 56, of Walnut and Robert Scott Lindsay, 53, of Chino Hills, coroner and company officials said.
Both men were managers in the information technology department and longtime Edison employees, the company said in a statement Saturday. Lindsay had worked for the company for 29 years, Serrano for 26.
Two other shooting victims were taken to hospitals in critical condition, the Sheriff's Department said in a statement.
The injured were Angela Alvarez, 46, of Glendale, an Edison employee, and Abhay Pimpale, 38, of Montebello, Edison said in a statement.
Pimpale, an independent contractor, was released from the hospital Saturday, according to City News Service. There was no new word on the condition of Alvarez.
All five people worked in the same area of the same building at the office park in Irwindale, a small industrial city in the San Gabriel Valley, authorities said.
Authorities have released no information on a possible motive for what the Edison statement called "one of the most horrific events the company has experienced in its 125-year history."
"It's a slow process," said Steve Whitmore, spokesman for the Sheriff's Department. "There's a lot of people to interview — 1,100 people work there."
However, the Los Angeles Times quoted a source as saying that Turner "did not like management."
"He told some people to leave and he was very deliberate about who he shot," the source reportedly said.
Several cars were parked Saturday in the driveway of Turner's home in an upscale neighborhood near a golf club in Norco, the Press-Enterprise reported.
'A real stand-up guy' Turner's real estate agent Shane Tucker said the home was up for a short sale and he and his wife were moving into a smaller place, but he still couldn't see a motive for something so drastic.
"He seemed like a real stand-up guy," Tucker told KABC-TV as he sat in a car outside the home where Turner had lived for six years as the original owner. "I know he did put a lot of the money into the house, it's really nice. I don't see why short-selling the house would trigger anything negative, so it has to be something else."
Horrified employees barricaded themselves behind locked doors and hid under desks Friday afternoon as Turner walked through the office firing a semi-automatic handgun, authorities said.
The office complex and nearby schools were locked down as the Los Angeles County Sheriff Department's SWAT team responded to several 911 calls.

The company said Saturday it was offering grief counseling for employees and is establishing a fund to support the victims' families. Edison will donate $100,000 and seek employee contributions.
Irwindale is a city of about 1,400 residents, 22 miles east of downtown Los Angeles. It is home to the Irwindale Speedway auto racetrack and large rock and gravel quarries.
Southern California Edison, a huge utility that provides power for most of the region, is one of its largest companies, employing 2,100 people.
The Associated Press, NBC Los Angeles and msnbc.com staff contributed to this report.