Federal Court Upholds Firing of Pharmacist over Defensive Gun Use in Robbery

Former Walgreen’s pharmacist Jeremy Hoven used his lawfully carried handgun for defence on the job and was terminated for violating company policy. (Photo credit: AP)

Guns dot com

The U.S. Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals this month found that Walgreens properly exercised its rights when it fired an employee for using his handgun in defense during a robbery.

At the center of the case is Jeremy Hoven, a pharmacist employed at-will by the drug store chain in Michigan. Hoven is a lawful concealed-carry permit holder who was fired by the company in 2011 after he exchanged gunfire with an armed robber while at work.

A licensed pharmacist since 1999, Hoven was robbed at gunpoint in 2007 while working for Walgreens. After Walgreens failed to implement extra security precautions such as panic buttons at the request of Hoven, the druggist obtained a Michigan concealed-carry permit in 2008 and started going to work armed.

On May 8, 2011, two armed subjects entered his store and after one jumped the counter, pointed a gun at Hoven, and started to pull the trigger, the pharmacist retreated and fired his own handgun at the subject.

North Carolina Lawful but Idiot Gun Owner Shoots and Kills his Cousin - No Charges - Lengthy Investigation Continues

Local news reports

Officials discovered Roy Jacob Bryant, 23, of the 3300 block of Ivey Stine Road, Lenoir, in a bedroom. Rowan EMS members treated him, but they were unsuccessful in their attempts to save him, said Rowan Sheriff’s Capt. John Sifford.

Sifford said Bryant was accidentally shot by his cousin, Timothy Scott Glover, 22, of Woodleaf Road.

Glover was showing Bryant his .410 caliber shotgun and was putting it away when the gun went off.

Glover placed the round he’d removed from the gun back into it and was closing it when Bryant slapped at the gun.

Officials said it is likely Glover’s finger was on the trigger when Bryant slapped at the gun. Bryant was shot at nearly point blank range in the stomach and died at the home.

An opposing opinion

I have to admit that it is quite nice of the people at this blog to allow a raging "gun loon" like myself the ability to give the opposite side of the issue. 

After all, we know that the good old days were quite different from what they are now.

People like this solid citizen used to open carry and had easy access to firearms.  There weren't many criminals and the ones out there didn't walk around with guns.

That point came to me when I was in my basement and heard a loud noise from upstairs.

It was at that point that I realized I didn't have a machinegun the way granny did because of those gun grabbers.  I would have had to make due with a semi-automatic pistol to deal with whatever intruder happened to be upstairs.

Unfortunately, it was my grandkid.

At least medical science has progressed and the little monster will live.

But, I have to admit I miss the good old days when solid citizens like the one I have pictured here had access to machineguns, short-barrelled shotguns, and other firearms that are hard for the average citizen to own.

It's nice to know that some people out there agree with me and want to carry weapons like these on the streets these days.

Even better, they can shoot the police in Indiana.  Hell, when grannie's friend John Dillinger did that sort of thing, the cops went and hunted him down.  These people weren't criminals, they were otherwise law abiding citizens.

But, Johnny would be proud to be a Hoosier these days!  Hell, he might even be alive thanks to the wise legislators in Indiana.

I miss the good old days and wish there were more guns out there in the hands of people that the law deems to be criminals.

But, they were good people who knew how to exercise their Second Amendment rights.

Texas 3-Year-old Shoots Himself - Dad to be Charged

Pat Robertson's Advice

Flatfoots Throughout History

So, which side really enables the gun violence?

Points 7 & 8 in this blog post by Kristin A. Goss and Philip J. Cook seem to be the pretty important to this meme:

7. The primary goal of gun regulation is to save lives by separating guns and violence. Federal and state laws regulate who is allowed to possess them, the circumstances under which they can be carried and discharged in public, certain design features, the record-keeping required when they are transferred, and the penalties for criminal use. The goal is to make it less likely that criminal assailants will use a gun. The evidence is clear that some of these regulations are effective and do save lives.

8. Gun violence can also be reduced by reducing overall violence rates. Gun violence represents the intersection of guns and violence. Effective action to strengthen our mental health, education, and criminal justice systems would reduce intentional violence rates across the board, including gun violence (both suicide and criminal assault). But there is no sense in the assertion that we should combat the causes of violence instead of regulating guns. The two approaches are quite distinct and both important.

Perhaps, a better term for the movement should be the "gun regulation" movement, especially since the first words in the  Second Amendment are; "A well-regulated".


FYI:
Kristin A. Goss is Associate Professor of Public Policy and Political Science at Duke University. She is the author of Disarmed: The Missing Movement for Gun Control in America. Philip J. Cook is ITT/Terry Sanford Professor of Public Policy and Professor of Economics and Sociology at Duke University. He is the co-author (with Jens Ludwig) of Gun Violence: The Real Costs. Kristen A. Goss and Philip J. Cook are co-authors of The Gun Debate: What Everyone Needs to Know.


- See more at: http://blog.oup.com/2014/06/gun-debate-facts-united-states

Another thing to annoy you.

The gun show sketch from the Richard Pryor show.

Check out the voice overs...a pre-Mork Robin Williams, who was part of the cast of the show!

Of course, this might get too close for comfort for some of you.

President Obama on the Lack of US Gun Control

Malaysian Digest

AUSTRALIA has got gun control right, says US President Barack Obama, while his own nation “should be ashamed” at its inability to address a surge in school shootings.

The president vented frustration and disbelief that there was no momentum for gun reform in the wake of a recent spate of mass shootings, in impassioned remarks likely to touch off a new row with the powerful firearms lobby.

“Our levels of gun violence are off the charts, there is no advanced developed country on earth that would put up with this,” the president said.

President Obama made the comments during a live question and answers session on the Tumblr web forum just hours after a gunman shot and killed a student at an Oregon High School in the latest shooting incident.

He pointed out that Australia hadn’t had a single mass shooting since the crackdown on gun violence in the wake of 1996’s Port Arthur shootings.

“We are the only developed country on earth where this happens, and it happens now once a week,” he said.

Gun Violence at U.S. Schools Rises Sharply

The Commercial Appeal

A fatal shooting in Oregon on Tuesday was the 31st firearms attack at a U.S. school since the start of the year, marking a sharp acceleration in the rash of violence that has occurred on campuses across the nation.

The incidents range from the 20 people shot near UC Santa Barbara less than threeweeks ago to gunfire that resulted in no injuries at all.

The frequency of attacks has picked up since the December 2012 massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary in Newtown, Conn., where 20 first-graders and six adults were gunned down.

In the 18 months since that tragedy, 41 deaths have occurred in 62 documented incidents at U.S. schools. In the 18 months before that attack, there were 17 deaths in 17 incidents. Everytown.org, a group that promotes gun safety, lists 72 incidents since Sandy Hook.

The increase comes at a time when all types of violent gun deaths have been essentially flat since about 2000, following a sharp drop since the 1980s, when such deaths peaked in the U.S.

Illinois Home Invasion Sparks Wild Defensive Shooting - 1 Bad Guy Dead, 1 Wounded

Local news reports

Oregon School Shooting - 2 Dead, 1 Wounded

Jared Michael Padgett

WSJ

The gunman who fatally shot a student and then killed himself at an Oregon high school Tuesday was a 15-year-old freshman at the school, police said.

Jared Michael Padgett used an AR-15 semi-automatic rifle in the attack that killed a fellow Reynolds High School freshman and wounded a teacher, Scott Anderson, chief of police in Troutdale, Ore., said Wednesday.

The suspect also was armed with a semi-automatic handgun that he didn't use in the assault, and investigators recovered nine loaded magazines and a large knife, Mr. Anderson said.

Mr. Padgett got the weapons from his family home. Although they were secured, "he defeated the security measures," the police chief said.

"Given the weapons and amount of ammunition that the shooter was carrying, the early notification and the initial law enforcement response were critical," Mr. Anderson said.

The teen shooter arrived at a building that houses the school's gym carrying a guitar case and a duffle bag, Mr. Anderson said. Wearing a camouflage helmet and a vest containing ammunition, Mr. Padgett opened fire at about 8 a.m. in the boys' locker room, allegedly gunning down 14-year-old Emilio Hoffman. No link between the boys has been established, the police chief said.

Teacher Todd Rispler was grazed by a bullet and "despite being injured," made his way from the locker room to initiate a school lockdown, he said.

Mr. Padgett moved into the hallway, where he encountered responding officers, then ducked into a restroom. After an exchange of gunfire, Mr. Padgett was found dead, killed by a "self-inflicted" gunshot, said Mr. Anderson. He wouldn't discuss motives.

"I cannot emphasize enough the role that Mr. Rispler and the responding officers played in saving many, many lives yesterday," the police chief said.

Detroit 7-Year-old Shot by Neighbor Trying to Save Him From a Dog Attack

The Daily Mail

A seven-year-old boy was accidentally shot by a neighbour who was trying to rescue him as he was attacked by a dog, Detroit police have said.

The boy was taken to hospital for treatment for a gunshot wound following the incident in Warwick on Detroit's west side at about 8pm last night.

Police have said the boy was being attacked by a dog when a neighbour came outside to try and rescue him, WXYZ Detroit has reported.

The neighbour tried to shoot the dog but missed and injured the boy, it has been reported.

The dog was later shot and killed, according to the Detroit Free Press.

It is also understood police were hoping to speak to the neighbour who fired the shots, although it is not known if he will be charged with a crime.

Someone please take note of this one for the next time the gun-rights fanatics try to claim that only cops shoot people unintentionally while aiming at the bad guys.

In Massachusetts, Gun Owner Bully Disarmed by Police after Argument at Son's School

Local news reports

Police seized an Arlington elementary school parent's gun following an "unsettling interaction" where the parent showed the principal his gun license, officials said.

Police say Robert Goodwin, Jr., 41, of Ryder Street pulled out his gun license during an argument Wednesday with Stratton Elementary Principal Michael Hanna. Goodwin also referenced he had access to firearms, police told news partner Wicked Local.

Goodwin has not been charged with a crime, but police seized Goodwin’s gun license and an unspecified firearm from his apartment Friday morning, according to Arlington police Chief Fred Ryan. Goodwin has also been served an order to stay away from the elementary school, where his child is a student.

Virginia 3-Year-old Shoots Twin Brother - Parents Sought

Huffington Post

How to Tell the Difference Between an Open-Carry Patriot and a Deranged Killer

Ruben Bolling provides the advice that all good Americans need in his strip Tom the Dancing Bug from BoingBoing.

More Background on Aaron Ybarra

Huffington Post

The man charged with killing one student and wounding two others at a small Seattle college last week had stopped taking his medications because he "wanted to feel the hate," and he detailed his plans in a handwritten journal for two weeks before the attack, a prosecutor said Tuesday.

"I just want people to die, and I'm gonna die with them!" Aaron Ybarra wrote the day of the shooting, King County Prosecutor Dan Satterberg said.

Satterberg released new details of the allegations as he filed charges of first-degree murder, attempted murder and assault against Ybarra, 26. Satterberg is seeking a sentence of life in prison.

Authorities say Ybarra has been held without bail and is on suicide watch at the county jail since a student pepper-sprayed him and ended the rampage Thursday at Seattle Pacific University.

Ybarra's lawyer, Ramona Brandes, has said her client has a long history of mental issues but is aware of the trauma caused by the shooting and is sorry. She said Tuesday that no decision has been made yet on whether he will seek a mental-illness defense.

"We have to look at his symptoms he manifested in the past, his treatment and his jail records to determine whether his mental illness arises to the level of a defense. These are choices he's going to be involved in," Brandes told The Seattle Times. "He wasn't on his meds and he committed an action that is incomprehensible. Had he been on his meds, would this have happened? We'll continue asking that for all time."

More Background on Jerad Miller

Huffington Post

Jerad Miller was ready to share his anti-government views with just about anyone who would listen, views that telegraphed his desire to kill police officers and his willingness to die for what he hoped would be a revolution against the government.

He told neighbors, television reporters and the Internet. Once, on the phone with the Indiana Bureau of Motor Vehicles, he threatened to "start shooting people."

If local or federal authorities were monitoring his online rants and increasingly sharp threats, they aren't saying — not with police still investigating what triggered Miller and his wife to gun down two officers and a third man Sunday before taking their own lives.

Even if Miller had attracted the attention of law enforcement, authorities would initially have been confined to knocking on his door and starting a conversation to try to gauge whether he was a true threat. His opinions were free speech, protected by the First Amendment. And given limited resources and rules against creating government watch lists, it would be impossible to keep tabs on everyone who actively promotes beliefs that may — or may not — turn to violence.

"In this particular situation, I think we would all be kidding ourselves if we said the signs weren't there," Finch said.

In January, Miller called a recorded help line of Indiana's motor vehicles bureau after he was pulled over in Nevada and found to have a suspended license from the state he had recently left. At the end of the call, Miller said, "If they come to arrest me for noncompliance or whatever, I'm just going to start shooting people," according to agency spokeswoman Danielle Dean.

The bureau contacted Nevada's Department of Public Safety and provided a copy of the recording, which the department's investigation division forwarded to a state-run threat analysis center on Jan. 22, spokeswoman Gail Powell said. The threat center forwarded the information to the Southern Nevada Counterterrorism Center, a combined project of federal, state and local authorities.

What happened next is unclear; the counterterrorism center did not immediately reply to a request for comment.

Is saying "I'm just going to start shooting people," really protected by the 1st Amendment? Isn't it a crime to say such a thing?  

Why don't we arrest all those who say such things? If found to be a real danger, these people need to be disarmed.

Ohio Man Shoots Toddler In The Head During Fight With Child's Mother

Huffington Post

Cleveland police say a man fatally shot his 2-year-old son in the head when he fired into the window of a home during a dispute with the child's mother.

Police say the boy was standing on a landing when he was struck early Tuesday and was taken to a hospital, where he died. The Cuyahoga (ky-uh-HOH'-guh) County medical examiner's office identified the child as Derrice Alexander Jr., of Cleveland.

Police say his father fled the scene and was later arrested but wasn't immediately charged.

Police Chief Calvin Williams says the man is a convicted felon and should not have had a weapon. He declined to give details about that criminal record.

Williams says the man seemed to be cooperating with investigators. They're trying to determine where he got the gun.

He was not charged immediately?????

A thought for you.

Gun Violence Victim Ryanne Mace's father, Eric, asks this question:

If we are the greatest nation in the world
and
our way of life is better than in any other country
and
we are a society of equitable laws
and
our most important resource is our people
and
the most precious among our people are our kids
and
we have the best and brightest minds in the world on our side
and
we order our society by the will of the people
then
why do people keep shooting each other and we can't seem to do anything other than post shit on Facebook decrying another tragedy has occurred?

We can't stop natural disasters.
We can't stop disease.
We can't keep time from taking our loved ones away.
but
We have decided consciously not to fix this.
All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.
End of rant.

Good point, Eric, the opposition wants nothing to be done and do everything they can to keep the status quo, or make the situation worse.

The reinterpretation of the Second Amendment by the McDonald and Heller decisions do not block meaningful action being taken in the form of registration and background checks, yet there is no meaningful gun regulation in the United States.

20 million shit laws need to be replaced with one effective set of laws.

Which is what the "pro-gun" side fears most.

Gun-mounted Flashlights Linked to Accidental Shootings

The Denver Post

Ronny Flanagan took pride in his record as a police officer in Plano, Texas. He had an incident-free career. He took safety training regularly. He was known at the range as a very good shot.

Yet he killed a man when he was simply trying to press a flashlight switch mounted beneath the trigger on his pistol.

In a deposition, Flanagan expressed his remorse and made a prediction.

"I don't want anyone to ever sit in a chair I'm in right now," he said. "Think about the officers that aren't as well trained, officers that don't take it as seriously, and you put them in a pressure situation, another accident will happen. Not if, but will."

Flanagan was right. Three months after the October 2010 shooting in Plano, a 76-year-old man took a bullet in the stomach from a New York police officer trying to switch on the same flashlight model.

At least three other people in the U.S. over the past nine years have been shot accidentally by police officers with gun-mounted flashlights, an investigation by The Denver Post found. Two victims were fellow officers.

In Colorado, Denver's police chief banned the use of tactical flashlights with switches below the trigger guard after two officers accidentally fired their guns last year.

One of the officers may have shot a suspect when his finger slipped from the flashlight switch to the trigger, firing a bullet into a car window of the fleeing driver.

Other large Colorado police and sheriff's departments contacted by The Post said they have recorded no flashlight-related accidental gunshots. But many have imposed restrictions similar to Denver's.

Lawful Florida Gun Owner Shoots and Kills his Friend Unintentionally - No Charges - Lengthy Investigation Continues

Kyle Guessford, the shooter

Austin Brunson, the dead friend


Local news reports

Manatee County, Florida -- A roommate was showing off his new pistol and accidentally shot, and killed, his roommate.

Kyle Guessford and Austin Brunson were at their home on 50th Avenue in Bradenton with two other people who were visiting.  Kyle was in his room checking out several accessories he had just purchased for his pistol and came out his new firearm in his hand.

As he entered the living room he switched the weapon mounted flashlight on and the firearm discharged hitting Austin in the head. 

Austin was pronounced dead when the EMS arrived.

There was no fighting or arguing prior to the incident which appears to be accidental. The investigation continues.

Moe gun bans?

NRA board member, Tood Rathner. tweets:

Bloodancers?  What's that on your back, dipshit?

It seems that Rathner is prone to tweeting stupid shit.  And for all his bullshit, would make sure that the Nazis were well armed in the hope that he could be a hero like the people who rebelled in the Nazi Ghettos--not realising that he was only hastening his demise in a less dignified manner.

He is the type of Jew that felt "oh, that Mr. Hitler doesn't mean all the things he says about Jews", but instead of feeling that Jews have weathered anti-semitism before--he thinks he can out shoot them.

In this case, he is too dumb to see the reality of the situation because his judgement is clouded by his moronic ideology.  He is a different type of holocaust denier--he is the type who didn't properly learn the lessons of history.

The fact that Rathner can sit with Ted Nugent after Nugent's comments  and not want to kill him is more than enough proof that Rathner is a total fuckwit.

Then, Rahtner is dumb enough to spout racist horseshit seals my argument.

Dude, we don't disarm the moes--only the stooges! But, you need to worry since you seem to fall into the category of a "stooge". A really serious stooge, Rathner.

And you aren't even funny.

No monopoly on crazies

To some of my circle's annoyance--I do not "twitter".  I just don't get it.

On the other hand, I have to share this tweet from the White House

This is true--the US does not have a monopoly on crazies, but it does have a problem with allowing access to firearms to those who shouldn't own them.

Trying to divert the issue by saying that the gun violence problem has nothing to do with guns is facially  ludicrous. It demonstrates that you do not understand the scope of this problem.

So, for the stupid "how is that old gun control thing working for you?"  There never has been any significant form of gun "control" (i.e., regulation) in the US.  It has been spotty, if not non-existent when it does appear. 

Fortunately, the Heller and McDonald decisions have held that background checks and registration do not violate the Second Amendment.  here is the Heller-McDonald language:

Like most rights, the right secured by the Second Amendment is not unlimited. From Blackstone through the 19th-century cases, commentators and courts routinely explained that the right was not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose. See, e.g., Sheldon, in 5 Blume 346; Rawle 123; Pomeroy 152–153; Abbott 333. For example, the majority of the 19th-century courts to consider the question held that prohibitions on carrying concealed weapons were lawful under the Second Amendment or state analogues. See, e.g., State v. Chandler, 5 La. Ann., at 489–490; Nunn v. State, 1 Ga., at 251; see generally 2 Kent *340, n. 2; The American Students’ Blackstone 84, n. 11 (G. Chase ed. 1884). Although we do not undertake an exhaustive historical analysis today of the full scope of the Second Amendment, nothing in our opinion should be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms. Heller at 54-5

Which has as a footnote (26):

We identify these presumptively lawful regulatory measures only as examples; our list does not purport to be exhaustive.

 From McDonald:

It is important to keep in mind that Heller, while striking down a law that prohibited the possession of handguns in the home, recognized that the right to keep and bear arms is not “a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose.” 554 U. S., at ___ (slip op., at 54). We made it clear in Heller that our holding did not cast doubt on such longstanding regulatory measures as “prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill,” “laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms.” Id., at ___–___ (slip op., at 54–55). We repeat those assurances here. Despite municipal respondents’ doomsday proclamations, incorporation does not imperil every law regulating firearms. McDonald at 39-40

Seriously, if one is going to invoke the Second Amendment, then a lot of things need to change in the US military establishment.  I seriously do not see a lot of the dickheads who wish to enjoy this right as being willing to put up with the responsibilities incumbent to that right: which is to enlist in the National Guard (which is the current incarnation of "the militia") and follow lawful orders.

I whole heartedly support you if you do wish to do exactly that.

How a "good guy with a gun" took a fatal bullet to the back

In the gun loon world, a good guy with a gun stopped the carnage (well, it was a good guy and gal with a gun by committed suicide, but that's beside the point).  The reality is this from the Daily Kos:

Wilcox, 31, was near the cash registers when he saw events unfolding. He was armed with gun of his own, and told a friend he was going to do something.

Joseph thought he was sneaking up on Jerad Miller:

It was at that point, instead of running, Wilcox approached Jerad Miller from behind.

It didn't work out the way Joseph thought it would:

As he moved to confront Jerad Miller, Wilcox passed Amanda, not realizing the two were together. She slipped behind Wilcox and shot him at close range.

Now, I'm sure the proponents of concealed and/or open carry here (and elsewhere) will argue that he should have known better, that he should have done more training, that he lacked "situational awareness," that...

Well, you get the point.

Meet the mongoose...

it can kill a cobra.

Or a bottle of antivenin for US politics.

US politics needs a big dose of this stuff



Consider yourself trod upon:

Photo courtesy of Matt Valentine

Another School Shooting - 2 dead, Oregon High school

NOT ONE MORE.

This is a GUN problem, whatever OTHER kind of problem it is.

There is a presser right now.

A gunman entered the high school this morning around 8 a.m.

He shot one student, aprox. age 15, who died.  The shooter was found also dead, and has been reported to be another student.

Remaining students are now being reunited with parents

There will be additional press sessions at noon Pacific Time.


NOT ONE MORE.

Guns are too easy to obtain, too easy to abuse.  We need stricter gun control, we need fewer guns.

The intersection of violence, ignorance, and hatred

TTAG Spins the Las Vegas Shooting

Joseph Robert Wilcox

The Truth About Guns

Post title: BREAKING: Concealed Carry Holder Stopped Las Vegas Shooters from Continuing Killing Spree

Amazing quote: It is tragic that Wilcox had to give his life to stop these two murderers, but there’s no doubt that his actions saved countless lives.

Even the commenters were divided about 50/50 on this, which means that half of them are as wacky as Nick Leghorn who wrote the post.

What happened when the two maniacs entered the WalMart was this.  Wilcox bravely decided to confront Jared, whom he thought was the only shooter. Amanda slipped behind Wilcox and blew him away.  If anything, Wilcox failed in situational awareness and got dead for his failure. For Leghorn to attribute the subsequent murder suicide to Wilcox's actions is the epitome of dishonest spinning.

The unpalatable truth is armed citizens are almost never able to stop an active shooter in time. I imagine it happens occasionally, here and there, but it's rare. That's why pro-gun fanatics need to twist every possible situation to fit their narrative.

The Las Vegas Shooters, Jerad and Amanda Miller

It's All About Obama Hate

'Support Our Troops - Unless.......' pic.twitter.com/vJu6Fxlhkg

— TheObamaDiary.com (@TheObamaDiary) June 10, 2014

N.J. Bill Would Allow Temporary Confiscation of Guns from Those with Mental Problems

Philly dot com

Families worried about mentally unstable loved ones hurting themselves or others would be able to seek a court order to temporarily take firearms away under a bill introduced Thursday in the New Jersey Senate.

"Families or a close friend are those who know best if someone has reached that point where they are mentally ill and violently prone," said Sen. Richard Codey (D., Essex), who introduced the bill.

The proposal for a "gun violence restraining order" comes after six people were killed last month in California by Elliot Rodger, 22, who then fatally shot himself. Authorities reportedly alerted to potential danger by Rodger's mother and therapist had visited him within a month before the shootings but found no cause to act, according to news reports.

"You can look at our ongoing history over the last 10 years - Aurora, Columbine, more recently in California," Codey said. "Clearly, these people were severely mentally ill, needed help, and should not have had guns in their possession."

The restraining order would temporarily ban the person it's directed at from obtaining or possessing firearms. Once notified of a potential danger, authorities would be required to petition a judge for the restraining order, which would be reevaluated after a designated amount of time.

A Business Plan

Indiana Lawful Gun Owner Pleads Guilty to Fatally Shooting 3-year-old Boy in the Head During ‘Gun Game’

Zachariah Grisham

Raw Story

A northern Indiana man has pleaded guilty to criminal charges after killing his fiancee’s 3-year-old son while they were playing a “gun game” in their Michigan City home.

Authorities said Zachariah Grisham, 24, frequently played a game in which he would point a real gun at the boy while child would point an imaginary gun back.

Grisham shot the boy in the head in September 2013. He told police he forgot his gun was loaded and pulled the trigger.

Grisham pleaded guilty Thursday to a felony charge of child neglect. He was originallycharged with both child neglect and reckless homicide.

Authorities said the shooting wasn’t intentional.

“It did not meet the qualifications of murder. It’s a very unfortunate incident,” LaPorte County Deputy Prosecutor Dave Ambers toldThe Times of Northwest Indiana.

Why do people keep trying to say being a part of the "unorganised militia" gives them any sort of "right"?

Come on, people, how seriously stupid are you?  I mean it shouldn't take too much brainpower on your part to figure out if something ISN'T ORGANISED that it might not be very useful.

Sedentary, reserve, inactive, unorganised, general (or other term indicating INACTIVITY) Militia, has always been unorganized and untrained and being a part of that body gives you fuck all in terms of a "right".

Seriously, is that too hard a concept for you people to come to grips with, or is it because your IQ is below normal that you figure you must be "normal" in some way?

And while you have glommed on to 10 USC §311(b)(2) because it say you are part of some sort of militia, you haven't grasped that the actual implementation of that law is found in the various state call out provisions.

Here are some examples:
New York:

New York Military - Article 1 - § 6-A Organizations and Volunteers From the Unorganized Militia:
§ 6-a. Organizations and volunteers from the unorganized militia. To the extent permitted by the constitution of the United States, the governor may, at any time, order, authorize or recognize such organizations of the unorganized militia, or of designated classes thereof, or of volunteers therefrom, as he may deem to be for the public interest, and may prescribe therefor such parts of the regulations governing the organized militia as may be applicable thereto or establish such regulations therefor, or both, as he may deem proper. The governor may, at any time, provide for the separate organization, or authorize the enlistment in organizations of the unorganized militia, of persons volunteering for such service, not otherwise subject to military duty under section two of this chapter.

In short, the unorganised militia is just that, unorganised.  It is an inactive component of the militia--its role is to provide manpower should the militia not have enough members, or need to replenish its strength.

It is the equivalent of saying that being subject to the draft makes one a member of the serving military.

Then again, you lot seem to think Ted Nugent is some form of super patriot, which might explain why you belive the sort of bullshit that being a part of the "unorganised militia" makes you anything other than a fool when you try to say that you are actually a serving member of any serious military force.

or claim any military duties, obligations, or rights based upon that status.

The militia of the state shall be divided into the organized militia, the retired list and the unorganized militia, which together shall constitute the state military forces. The organized militia shall be composed of: an army national guard and an air national guard which forces, together with an inactive national guard, shall comprise the Alabama National Guard; the Alabama Naval Militia; and the Alabama State Guard, whenever any such force is organized by the Governor pursuant to existing laws. The National Guard, army or air, shall consist of such organizations and units as the commander in chief may from time to time authorize to be formed, all to be organized in accordance with the laws of the United States affecting the National Guard, army and air, and the regulations issued by the appropriate Secretary of the Department of Defense. - See more at: http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/alcode/31/2/31-2-3#sthash.2hhEPhwG.dpuf

The militia of the state shall be divided into the organized militia, the retired list and the unorganized militia, which together shall constitute the state military forces. The organized militia shall be composed of: an army national guard and an air national guard which forces, together with an inactive national guard, shall comprise the Alabama National Guard; the Alabama Naval Militia; and the Alabama State Guard, whenever any such force is organized by the Governor pursuant to existing laws. The National Guard, army or air, shall consist of such organizations and units as the commander in chief may from time to time authorize to be formed, all to be organized in accordance with the laws of the United States affecting the National Guard, army and air, and the regulations issued by the appropriate Secretary of the Department of Defense. - See more at: http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/alcode/31/2/31-2-3#sthash.2hhEPhwG.dpuf

More on the Nasty, Nazi-like, Nevada Gun Nuts

The ONLY thing a 'good guy with a gun' stopped was a bullet, one of the concealed carry guys in Walmart -- where there are so many, many gun incidents even without the right wing white supremacist gun nuts.

They seem a tidge unclear about white supremacists and neo-nazis.

From the Huff Po:

Las Vegas Shooting Suspects Amanda Miller, Jerad Miller Equated Government 'With Nazis'

Police in Nevada have identified the two shooters -- responsible for the deadly weekend killings of three people, including two police officers -- as a husband and wife named Amanda Miller and Jerad Miller.

"We believe that it was a random act," Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Assistant Sheriff Kevin McMahill said at a Monday press conference.

"[We have] no doubt the suspects [had] some apparent ideology along the lines of militia and white supremacists," McMahill added. "We believe that they equated government ... with Nazis."

According to McMahill, Jared Miller, 31, and his wife Amanda Miller, 22, shot and killed Las Vegas police officers Alyn Beck and Igor Soldo, and a civilian identified as Robert Wilcox, during their shooting spree.

Beck, 41, was a married father of three who had been with the department since 2001. Soldo, 31, had been with the department since 2006. He is survived by a wife and baby, police said. Wilcox was a resident of Las Vegas.

In addition to identifying the suspects, McMahill released new details about the shootings, which began late Sunday morning while Beck and Soldo were having lunch at CiCi's Pizza restaurant.

 "Jared Miller pulled a handgun out and shot officer Soldo one time in the back of the head," McMahill said. "Officer Beck immediately began to react ... [but] was shot once in the throat area. Amanda Miller [then] removed a handgun from her purse and both Jared and Amanda fired multiple shots into officer Beck."

After shooting the officers, police say the suspects pulled the men out of the booth and laid them on the floor. They then placed a flag – a yellow banner with a coiled snake above the words, "Don't tread on Me" – on top of Beck, along with a swastika. On Soldo, the two placed a note, police said, that read, "This is the start of the revolution."

After the shooting, police say the couple took the officers handguns and ammunition and fled across the street to a nearby Walmart. There, police say, Jared Miller fired off one round and told everyone to get out of the store. At some point he allegedly yelled, "This is a revolution."

According to police, Walmart shopper Robert Wilcox, 31, was carrying a concealed weapon and confronted Jared Miller. Wilcox was apparently unaware of Amanda Miller and when he walked by her to confront her husband, she shot him in the rib area.

A shootout with pursuing officers ensued, during which Amanda Miller "took her handgun and fired several rounds into Jared," McMahill said. "At that point Amanda took her handgun and ended her life with one gunshot to the head."

Nevada Spree Shooters Were Cliven Bundy supporting Right Wing Gun Nut Terrorists

I've been saying for years -- we have more to fear from the crackpot radical right wing terrorists than from Muslims, including many of their radical fringe.

These domestic terrorists (Harry Reid called it) are the enemies of all of us, a threat to all of us, a true danger to our nation.

These people are anti-American, they are opposed to those values which place people over guns, and which value human life over violence and extremism.  These people are a particularly ugly kind of ignorant.


From AATTP:

Breaking: Vegas Mass-Shooters Were Bundy Ranch Tea Party TERRORISTS! (Video)

Posted by: John Prager in Breaking News, Crime, Most Popular on AATTP, TEApublicans in Action, The Gun Control Debate, Videos June 9, 2014

This is the start of a revolution,” the shooters yelled as they opened fire on Las Vegas Metro police officers Alyn Beck and Igor Soldo inside a Las Vegas Cici’s Pizza–and it appears the revolution of which the couple spoke is the exact one that has been promised by the ‘nonviolent patriots’ at the Bundy Ranch.

Cliven Bundy’s supporters are currently being investigated for bomb threats, making menacing statements toward government officials, and pointing weapons at and threatening police. Now, it seems, the government’s failure to do something about these violent, unstable terrorists has reached the next step: actual murder.
The shooters reportedly draped the familiar symbol of the Tea Party and other extremist right-wing groups–the bright yellow “Don’t Tread on Me” Gadsden flag–over their victims’ bodies. Among the couple’s belongings, police found swastika symbols.
Neighbors have explained that the couple may have been methamphetamine users, and regularly spoke of conspiracy theories–and their plans to kill police officers. The pair regularly, according to neighbors, spouted racist, anti-government views and boasted about their involvement in the Bundy standoff.
One neighbor said the man claimed that he and his partner-in-crime had been kicked off of Bundy Ranch. “The man told Monroe he had been kicked off Cliven Bundy’s ranch 80 miles northeast of Las Vegas while people from throughout the U.S. gathered there in protest of a Bureau of Land Management roundup of Bundy’s cattle,” neighbor Jessica Anderson said.

“They were handing out white-power propaganda and were talking about doing the next Columbine,” another neighbor, Brandon Moore, said.

Cliven Bundy’s wife disputes these claims, though. “I have not seen or heard anything from the militia and others who have came to our ranch that would, in any way, make me think they had an intent to kill or harm anyone,” Carol Bundy said.
After the shooters, whose names have not been released to the public, shot the officers the couple stripped them of their weapons and ammo. The “patriots” then headed across the street to Walmart, where they may have exchanged gunfire with a concealed weapon carrier. Just inside the doors of the big-box store, they opened fire on a yet unnamed woman, killing her. As Metro police closed in, the female suspect shot her accomplice, then took her own life. The male suspect then shot and killed himself. One must wonder if this could have been prevented, had the government acted on the unstable terrorists surrounding Welfare Cowboy Cliven Bundy’s ranch. Perhaps this will serve as a wake-up call: We can’t allow terrorists to make the rules. Police say they are investigating ties to white supremacist groups and, of course, the Bundy militias.