More on Medical Marijuana and Gun Ownership

This came in by e-mail. What do you think he's saying and what's your response to it?

I refuse to join blog sites as I know it will consume more of my time, yet as I am doing research, I have stumbled across your blog and feel the intrinsic need to voice my opinion.

You have voiced your opinion on drug laws prohibiting gun usage and thus your view that a medical marijuana user should not be permitted to own or use a firearm.

If this is incorrect, please forgive my misperception.

The Gun Control Act bans "unlawful users" of controlled substances from possessing a firearm, and marijuana is a schedule I substance which does not grant lawful use as there is no federally accepted medical benefit. Well, unless you are using marijuana through a FDA study, which has not occurred in my research in about 20 or more years, or if you are one of the FOUR-ish remaining federal marijuana patients. Sadly, I digress, but my point is simple.

COCAINE AND OPIUM are Schedule II drugs which is defined as having a medically accepted purpose. This means that lawfully, an individual may be a medically prescribed cocaine or opium user and still maintain full gun ownership protection, while state licensed medical marijuana users do not.

Protecting the security of society must always be the focal point of liberty restricting legislation, but be sure that you understand the full reaching grasp of this legislation before you educate readers.

Is Medical Marijuana Coming to Florida?

via Fuck Conservatives

Gun Control and Marijuana

In Montana and Oregon they're very confused.

Firearms dealers in states that allow medical marijuana can't sell guns or ammunition to registered users of the drug, a policy that marijuana and gun-rights groups say denies Second Amendment rights to individuals who are following state law.

Federal law already makes it illegal for someone to possess a gun if he or she is "an unlawful user of, or addicted to" marijuana or other controlled substances. A Sept. 21 letter from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, issued in response to numerous inquiries from gun dealers, clarifies that medical marijuana patients are included in that definition.

That seems clear enough. Why would having a prescription for the drug change anything? The reason users of marijuana and other drugs are prohibited from owning firearms is because when taking the drug they are impaired and cannot responsibly and safely manage the guns.

Of course, the slippery slope is looming on the horizon of this policy. What about the prescription pain killers, some of which are like heroin? How can gun ownership be compatible with them and not with their street counterparts? The answer is simple and obvious, it cannot.

But never underestimate the power of the NRA and the gun lobby.

Officials in two Oregon counties have said they'll appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court after state judges said sheriffs couldn't deny concealed handgun licenses for medical marijuana patients.

The Oregon Court of Appeals and the Oregon Supreme Court said the state law that authorizes concealed handgun permits is separate from the federal law that outlaws gun possession by drug users, and the state gun law doesn't address medical marijuana use.

So, in spite of the federal law, the State of Oregon has decided concealed carry permits are OK for medical marijuana patients. It's sort of a technicality that one is a state law and the other is federal. I suppose those gun owners who are also medical marijuana patients had to conceal that fact when buying their guns.  Otherwise the gun dealer would have been constrained to deny the purchase because of the federal law.  Is that part legal, that concealing of marijuana use at the time of buying a gun?

Eventually this will all have to be straightened out.

What's your opinion? Do you think responsible gun owners can smoke pot and continue to be responsible?  I don't. I believe one would have to choose, pot or guns.  If you want to get high, fine I have no problem with it. Drugs should be legal anyway in my opinion.  But, I cannot accept that drug use and gun ownership are compatible.

What do you think?  Please leave a comment.

Concealed Carry - Medical Marijuana Case Goes to Washington

Bloomberg Businessweek reports

Ryan Kirchoff, an attorney for Jackson County, said the Gun Control Act is designed to keep guns out of the hands of people Congress considered potentially dangerous or irresponsible, such as those who use a controlled substance.

Because marijuana is a controlled substance, the county argues gun ownership would be barred under the Gun Control Act, he said. But the state statute concerning concealed weapons doesn't explicitly address it.

That sounds like a pretty good argument. When it comes to defending gun rights, you know how they pick and choose, applying what works for them and ignoring the rest. This one they want to ignore.

I have a simpler defense. People who use medical marijuana should not own guns, let alone carry them around, because pot interferes with your motor skills, your thinking, your sensory perception, all of which are indispensible for responsible gun management.

Besides, medical marijuana patients fall into two categories. Most are people who like to get high and are scamming the system, of course they should be disqualified from gun ownership. The minority is people who really need relief from extremely severe physical symptoms of various diseases, which unfortunately, must disqualify them too.

What's your opinion? Please leave a comment.

Medical Marijuana in New Mexico

via Fuck Conservatives, link sent in by El Gato



What do you think this is all about?  In Denver I'm told there are more dispensaries than you can shake a stick at.

Please leave a comment.

Baldr's Take on the Legally Stoned Concealed Carry Movement

via New Trajectory

If you came upon someone on the street who was smoking pot and clearly stoned, how would you feel if they were handed a loaded gun? Do you think that person would have sound judgment, enough to handle a lethal weapon? Would they have good aim? Would you feel safer?

As always, Baldr's obversations are right-on. What do you think?

Please leave a comment.

Oregon - Pot and Gun Paradise

The Associated Press reports on how Oregon is going up in smoke, responsibly armed all the while.

The Oregon Supreme Court unanimously ruled Thursday that a retired school bus driver can have her medical marijuana and a concealed handgun, too.

The ruling upheld previous decisions by the Oregon Court of Appeals and circuit court that determined a federal law barring criminals and drug addicts from buying firearms does not excuse sheriffs from issuing concealed weapons permits to people who hold medical marijuana cards and otherwise qualify.

"We hold that the Federal Gun Control Act does not pre-empt the state's concealed handgun licensing statute and, therefore, the sheriffs must issue (or renew) the requested licenses," Chief Justice Paul De Muniz wrote in the ruling issued in Salem.

Cynthia Willis, one of four plaintiffs, welcomed the ruling.

"I feel like a big girl now," Willis said. "I feel like a real human being now, not just a source of revenue to the county."

Leland Berger, the attorney representing Willis and other medical marijuana patients in the state, said the ruling was important in the continuing national debate over making marijuana legal to treat medical conditions.

here's the real story on medical marijuana

What do you think? Please leave a comment.

Medical Marijuana Grower gets 28 Years for Protecting his Crop

When this case first hit the news we discussed it. My first impression was that the shooter was not so much a medical marijuana patient as a pot dealer prepared to protect his product. That may or may not be the case, but apparently the jury didn't like his deadly response to the thieves.

The Sacramento Bee reports

A 41-year-old Fresno man has been sentenced to 28 years to life in prison for fatally shooting a man who tried to steal from his backyard medical-marijuana garden.

Fresno County Superior Court Judge Arlan Harrell said Monday that Phayvanh Dydouangphan apparently valued his pot more than human life, the Fresno Bee reports.

Dydouangphan, who is authorized to grow marijuana under California's medical marijuana law, admitted firing a shotgun at a group of people he caught breaking into his backyard on Sept. 8. He said he acted in self-defense because one of them pointed a gun at him.

The shotgun blast killed 40-year-old Stanley Wallace of Caruthers, who was sitting in the passenger seat of a pickup.

Dydouangphan was convicted in January of voluntary manslaughter.

The incident prompted Fresno County lawmakers to ban outdoor medical marijuana growing.

What's your opinion? Is that sentence a bit severe? Or is that what we should do with people who insist on shooting first and asking questions later?

Is it because this took place in California that it turned out like this?  In those states where the "castle doctrine" is more appreciated would it have been different?

What's your opinion?  Please leave a comment.

Medical Marijuana and Guns

The Seattle Times has a wonderful story about medical marijuana users and gun rights.

Cynthia Willis calls up and down the firing range to be sure everyone knows she is shooting, squares up in a two-handed stance with her Walther P-22 automatic pistol and fires off a clip in rapid succession.

Willis is not only packing a concealed handgun permit in her wallet, she also has a medical marijuana card. That combination has led the local sheriff to try to take her gun permit away.

She is part of what is considered the first major court case in the country to consider whether guns and marijuana can legally mix. The sheriffs of Washington and Jackson counties say no. But Willis and three co-plaintiffs have won in state court twice, with the state's rights to regulate concealed weapons trumping federal gun control law in each decision.

With briefs filed and arguments made, they are now waiting for the Oregon Supreme Court to rule.

When it's over, the diminutive 54-year-old plans to still be eating marijuana cookies to deal with her arthritis pain and muscle spasms, and carrying her pistol.

Marijuana cookies, are you kidding me? You know how long that stuff stays in your system? Gun owners should be clear-headed and sober, not stoned on pot or any other intoxicants.

Of course, if they deny guns to pot users, next will be anyone with a prescription for methadone, vicodin, oxycontin, oxycodone and all the rest. If this didn't make such good sense I'd think it was another gun-control conspiracy to get rid of all the guns.

What's your opinion? Please leave a comment.

Pot Growers in California

The Mercury News has the report.

The 40-year-old man was shot Wednesday morning at the home across the street from Roeding Park. He's in critical condition at Community Regional Medical Center.

I thought all these medical marijuana guys were just stoners with cooperating doctors. I guess some of them are armed pot dealers with cooperating doctors.

The solution: Prop 19.

What do you think?

Medical Marijuana and Guns

Oregonlive.com reports on the happy results for medical marijuana users who own guns.

Oregon's 32,929 medical marijuana users can't be denied concealed handgun licenses, despite the efforts of at least two sheriffs who want to keep concealed weapons out of those hands.

The Oregon Court of Appeals ruled this week that Washington County Sheriff Rob Gordon and Jackson County Sheriff Mike Winters were mistaken in their interpretation of the federal Gun Control Act. The act states that "an unlawful user ... of any controlled substance" can't own a gun, and the sheriffs contended the federal act trumps Oregon's medical marijuana law. Though federal law prohibits marijuana, Oregon's 12-year-old law legalizes pot possession for patients with qualifying ailments and a doctor's approval.

I'm a big supporter of medical marijuana, but I find it completely insane that the patients who use the drug should be allowed to own guns, let alone have concealed carry permits. The ones who just like to get high and have a doctor who'll write the script for them, should not have guns. These folks generally do not possess the serious and responsible character required for proper gun management.

The ones who truly need the pain or nausea relief brought about by using pot, should also be disqualified. They're not in shape physically to responsibly handle guns.

Leland Berger, who represented four medical marijuana users who were denied concealed handgun licenses, was relieved by the Court of Appeals decision. He sees the sheriffs' denial of licenses as discrimination against patients who use cannabis to treat debilitating health problems -- including cancer, glaucoma, seizures, nausea and severe pain.

I don't believe that's discrimination. To me it sounds like good common sense. When a person becomes so ill that they need marijuana, or a number of other medications for that matter, it's time for them to give up the guns.

What's your opinion? Please leave a comment.

Medical Marijuana and Guns

From The Volokh Conspiracy, link provided by FishyJay.

Respondent, the Jackson County Sheriff, appeals a judgment of the circuit court that ordered him to renew a concealed handgun license issued to petitioner, a medical marijuana user. The sheriff concedes that petitioner met the requirements for issuance of a concealed handgun license set forth in ORS 166.291. He nevertheless asserts that Oregon’s concealed handgun licensing statutes are preempted by federal law in this instance, because “an unlawful user * * * of any controlled substance” cannot lawfully possess a firearm under 18 USC section 922(g) of the federal Gun Control Act. The circuit court rejected the sheriff’s preemption argument and ordered him to issue a renewal of petitioner’s concealed handgun license. We agree with the circuit court’s conclusion that federal law does not preempt this state’s concealed handgun licensing statutes, and we therefore affirm....

I hate the way lawyers write. Does it mean that using medical marijuana in Oregon does not interfere with one's right to have a concealed carry permit?

It is a fascinating question. Most places, I believe, allow gun owners to drink as long as they stay under the legal limit. If they want to drink more I suppose they have to leave their guns at home along with the car keys. The problem is the need to be responsible with guns doesn't end at the front door, in fact the greatest need is in the home. For that reason I've often questioned gun owners about their drinking habits, inferring, in spite of their righteous indignation, that if they drink at all, they are not being responsible.

But, with pot it's even worse. Most guys can have one beer and not be impaired enough to lessen his ability to act right. The pot smoker on the other hand, if the dope is any good, gets loaded enough to be a danger to himself and others, at least where guns are concerned.

At the risk of sounding extreme in my views, since we're talking about a life or death situation whenever we deal with guns, in order to be licensed to own a gun, one must be completely abstemious - no drinking, no drugs. Just like my "one strike you're out" concerning accidents, I say one beer or one joint, you lose your right.

If a person is serious about protecting his family and his home, he'd be glad to follow this regimen. Imagine the wonderful world it would be if we knew that gun owners are sober and responsible people who are serious about their right to bear arms rather than what we have now.

What's your opinion?

Jim Gray on the War on Drugs

Thanks to Phuck Politics. James P. Gray is one helluva speaker. What do you think?

Governor Corzine's Final Act

NJ.com reports on the final legislative action taken by outgoing Governor Jon Corzine.

Gov. Jon Corzine tonight signed a measure making New Jersey the 14th state to legalize marijuana for medicinal purposes, part of a flurry of bills the Democrat penned in his last full day on the job.

The marijuana bill (S119) is expected to take effect in six months. Only patients with specific illnesses would be permitted to get a prescription: cancer, glaucoma, multiple sclerosis, HIV/AIDS, seizure disorder, amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (also known as Lou Gherig’s disease), severe muscle spasms, muscular dystrophy, inflammatory bowel disease, Crohn’s disease and any terminal illness if a doctor has determined the patient will die within a year.

What's your opinion? Is this a good law? Is the only reason to oppose legislation like this because of the possible abuse by loose prescription-writing doctors? I mean, anybod could be diagnosed with "severe muscle spasms."

Please leave a comment.

Reefer Madness in L.A.

PJTV never fails to provide wonderful examples of the conservative mind set. In this video about the medical marijuana "problem" in Los Angeles, we have a fantastic example. Los Angeles County District Attorney Steve Cooley seems like a caricature of the stereotypical right wing character that we love to make fun of. There were times during the interview that I thought he was really a comedian poking fun.

Sadly, he was quite serious. What do you think? Is this something that law enforcement people should be concerned with? Did you hear how many times he used the word "cartels." I thought any minute there he was going to say "we estimate that 90% of the medical marijuana comes from Mexico."

No questions were asked about the taxes these dispensaries must pay to the State, but I imagine that's part of the deal. The big concern seemed to be the overwhelmingly high percentage of healthy customers. Is that a big problem, in your opinion? Isn't that a benefit, even though it wasn't the intention of the law, isn't it good if otherwise law abiding people get their pot from one of these legal outlets in stead of off the street?

What's your opinion? Please leave a comment.

Medical Marijuana

Reason.com ran an article today which traced the background of the medical marijuana situation.

In 1973, Robert Randall was going blind from glaucoma when he discovered that smoking marijuana seemed to help his condition. That didn't matter to police when they found the Washington, D.C., resident growing cannabis and arrested him. Preferring to keep his sight, Randall sued the federal government, arguing that he was entitled to smoke pot as a "medical necessity."

It was a far-fetched argument—but it worked. In 1976, a court ruled in Randall's favor. Before long, the federal government found itself in the strange position of supplying marijuana to him and a handful of other patients under a "compassionate use" program.

This week, the Justice Department kept a promise made by candidate Barack Obama when it announced that henceforth, "it will not be a priority to use federal resources to prosecute patients with serious illnesses or their caregivers who are complying with state laws on medical marijuana."

The liberals are all cheering, the conservatives are either lambasting or mocking the President. Only Phuck Politics had this to say.

"...he didn’t change jack shit. He didn’t sign any legislation barring the Justice Department from arresting medical marijuana patients. He didn’t tell Congress to draft legislation barring the Justice Department from arresting medical marijuana patients. And he hasn’t condemned the Justice Department from raiding dispensaries the last time he promised this shit .

So this is just Obama’s go to move when his base is pissed off.

And his base bought it hook, line, and sinker, because they’re praising his name...

Except me. Because I don’t trust this corporate whore.

What's your opinion? Is Phuck Politics on to something here? Is this really a nothing move while the big deals are all up in the air, Health reform and Afghanistan, to name two?

I must admit, after starting out as an unabashed Obama fan one year ago, I am beginning to have my doubts. Several promises have been completely ignored and a number of Bush policies continued. I don't know what to think. What about you?

Please leave a comment.

Are We Ready to Reform Marijuana Laws?

According to NORML (National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws) the country is ready for a change. Writing on the NORML Blog, Allen St. Pierre, NORML Executive Director has this to say:

I believe, there is a palpable zeitgeist in America right now favoring reform; the Obama administration appears amenable to some cannabis law reforms in ways that no prior president since Jimmy Carter has embraced; and lastly, with NORML’s nearly 600,000 ‘friends’ on Facebook and nearly 67,000 MySpace, more Americans than ever before who are keen on cannabis can create a viral effect that benefits reform.

Here in Boulder between 10,000-15,000 students and activists are expected to celebrate in what has become the biggest 4/20 event in the world.

A New York Times article expresses agreement:

Long stigmatized as political poison, the marijuana movement has found new allies in prominent politicians, including Representatives Barney Frank, Democrat of Massachusetts, and Ron Paul, Republican of Texas, who co-wrote a bill last year to decrease federal penalties for possession and to give medical users new protections.

I agree wholeheartedly that penalizing marijuana possession and personal use is wrong. I absolutely favor legalization. Whatever expense would be involved in the transition could easily be recouped in taxes, probably in a very short time. The letterhead, envelopes and business cards of the ATF would all have to be reprinted, of course. Would it be ATMF or AMTF?

What's your opinion? Is there a moral question in legalizing pot? Do you think it sends the wrong message to kids? Might it not improve the message by separating marijuana from the other drugs which are sometimes more harmful?

Please leave a comment.

Obama's Pot Comments

On Daisy's post yesterday I read about the latest town hall meeting in which Obama disappointed everyone who wants marijuana reform.

Here's the video from The Young Turks site.




Cenk Uygur, at The Young Turks, as well as the others to whom Daisy linked, all agree that the comments were disappointing. I agree with that, but take a slightly different impression from what I saw. It seems to me the live audience laughed first, this triggered Obama to laugh and make a silly joke, and then to dismiss the whole thing. To his credit, he gave a fairly clear "no," which is better than a wishy-washy non-answer. It was the laughter and the shrugging it off lightly that seems to have upset people.

I put this one in the same category as that unfortunate comment he made on Jay Leno. These are the risks of speaking without a teleprompter.

We've also got the point raised by Uygur about the rephrasing of the question. Even that, I'm OK with. Obviously the President is not ready to make a big move on marijuana reform yet. I think the baby steps that have been made are good ones and over the next couple years we'll see bigger changes.

What's your opinion? Would marijuana reform be good for the country? One thing I keep wondering is, isn't most of the problems and violence and cost associated with heroin and cocaine and not marijuana? Although I'm all for reform of the pot laws, I'm afraid it would only resolve a small percentage of the problems. What do you think?

Please leave a comment.

Medical Marijuana

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The new administration seems to be moving in the direction of accepting medical marijuana as a legitimate option for those people whose doctors feel they need it. How much of this is just a front for people who want to get high, do you think? If there is a significant percentage abusing this option, do you think that'll ruin it for the people who really need it, the glaucoma patients, for example?

It seems to me that for every person with a true medical need for marijuana, there are probably two or three who are just taking advantage of the situation. But, I think that's a good thing, as long as that abuse does not hinder the overall program. For me, marijuana should be the first drug to be removed from the so-called "war on drugs." Perhaps what happened in Massachusetts last year along with these recent announcements by the Attorney General is the beginning of the long-overdue reversal of America's attitude towards recreational drugs.

What's your opinion?