Civil rights for gays is long overdue and legalization of SSM is just an important milestone on the journey to equal rights.
Gunloons often like to equate their gunloonery to a civil rights struggle. It's a pretty offensive argument since gunloons are almost exclusively fat, white males who have never been turned down for a job, excluded from educational opportunities, denied access to the legal system or other public institutions, etc. solely on the basis of their race, religion, gender or sexual orientation.
Think about it. Blacks were killed for suggesting they be allowed to vote. Gays have lost jobs solely because they are gay. Gunloons believe they are oppressed because they can't own a fully-automatic firearm or have to wait more than 30 minutes for a gun purchase.
Kind of puts things in perspective. A few years ago, 41 states allowed an employer to fire someone for no other reason than being gay. Almost 50 years ago, blacks were denied access to retail stores, schools, jobs because of being black. Today, fat white males have the gall to pretend theirs is a civil rights struggle. Shame.
Right. We just get thrown in jail. The unspeakable gall...
ReplyDeleteActually, TS, you don't.
ReplyDeleteIn point of fact, you can be a felon and lie on your 4473 form and chances are better than 99% you won't be tossed in jail.
Face facts--the most "oppression" a gunloon faces is when the Hooters girl fails to bring him the right wing sauce.
Or perhaps when people like you call the cops on anyone you see with a gun...
ReplyDeleteIf you're not breaking the law--you have nothing to worry about--right?
ReplyDeleteOk, so if someone called the cops on every black person they saw, or every homosexual- that would be ok in your book? If they are not breaking the law, they shouldn't care.
ReplyDeleteSooo...you're seriously arguing that you're born carrying a gun and can never take it off?
ReplyDeleteWow.
"In point of fact, you can be a felon and lie on your 4473 form and chances are better than 99% you won't be tossed in jail."
ReplyDeleteAnd whose fault is that? Gunloons that don't lie on their form or the government for not enforcing their on laws?
FWM: The nswer is..the NRA. They insisted the law read that one has to "knowingly" lie on their 4473s.
ReplyDeleteIt is virtually impossible to prove anyone ever "knowingly" lies about anything.
No other laws require the prosecution to show someone "knowingly" anything.
Jadegold: “Sooo...you're seriously arguing that you're born carrying a gun and can never take it off?”
ReplyDeleteHuh? Where did I say that? Seriously, where did I say this has anything to do with being born with it, or it can’t be removed? Of course people can be disarmed- that’s the whole point of gun control!
You are deflecting. I pointed out how absurd you are for suggesting that there is nothing wrong with calling the cops on someone (though you have not seen anything illegal) and that the targets of your bigotry should not mind being harassed, searched, and possibly even having a gun drawn on them. I bet even you recognize how despicable that level of discrimination would be if it were for race or sexual orientation. Aside from that, you are suggesting that it is not bigotry so long as it is a choice or they can change. Do you believe there is no such thing as religious discrimination?
I also pointed out how the punishment of a prison sentence is far worse than just not getting a job. Though lying on a 4473 is not what I am talking about, the fact that most crimes go unpunished doesn’t change the fact that some are. 99% of illicit drug users or drunk drivers get away with their crimes. You don’t have much of a point.
Finally, I’ll save you some time and preempt your rebuttal which I will assume will go something like this:
Wow. So you are seriously comparing the struggle of gunloons to the Jews in Nazi Germany or apartheid? Wow. M’kay…
To which I reply: No, Jade. There are various degrees of discrimination, and one being worse than the other doesn’t mean they don’t both exist. What makes some bigotry worse than others is the quantity of the bigots, or the power they possess. Thankfully, you have neither. Some places like CA, NY, or NYC are worse than others, but if you had your way, we’d all have it real bad for sure.
C'mon guys, why xcan't you just admit when Jadegold hits one out of the park?
ReplyDeleteYour cries of oppression and continual braying about natural human rights is silly.
"C'mon guys, why xcan't you just admit when Jadegold hits one out of the park?"
ReplyDeleteWhen has that ever happened? This is just another foul.
Blame the NRA again. Guess they were not insignificant in 1968 when the law was passed.
Oh, and it is a crime to attempt to purchase a gun while a prohibited felon. There is no "knowingly" about it.
So if the government is not going to prosecute current gun crimes, what makes you think they are going to prosecute any more silly laws you all dream up?
What I find most heartening about this comment thread is how the gunzlooniez all preface their comments about their own status of being oppressed wretches by saying, "YAY got teh GAY marriage. OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOh-rah!". Oh, I'm sorry, that didn't happen.
ReplyDeleteMikeb302000:
ReplyDeleteHey, stopped clock and all of that, but this:
"So if the government is not going to prosecute current gun crimes, what makes you think they are going to prosecute any more silly laws you all dream up?
June 27, 2011 12:14 PM"
deserves to be recognized as a good idea.
Let's stop the "War on Drugs" and apply the same amount of manpower, money and draconian sentencing on the problem of illegal gunz (and ALL gunz, every last steenkeen oneofem! 11ty1!! should be outlawed!!!) and we'll see vast reductions in gunzownerz!!!!*
* Sorry, I lost track, in the excitement, of just how many "exclamation points" I used. Was it five, or was it six? Bein' as I'm usin' english, the most powerfully emotive language in the world, y'gotta ask yourself, 'am I feelin' lucky?'. Well, are ya punk?
Are you really using English? Because my second grader can spell and create sentence structure far superior to your misspelled, incoherent ramblings.
ReplyDelete"Oh, and it is a crime to attempt to purchase a gun while a prohibited felon. There is no "knowingly" about it."
ReplyDeleteTechnically, yes. In practice, however, it is virtually impossible to successfully prosecute because of the "knowingly" clause.
Look, if you or I were to sign our name to a 1040 form that claimed a $200K medical deduction for a trip to Vegas' gambling tables--we're going to get prosecuted. We can't argue that we didn't know or realize such a deduction was unlawful. We're going to get nailed to the wall. Because there is no "knowingly" clause.
Yet, a felon can lie with abandon on a 4473 and get away with it almost every time. In fact, my lawyer says the only time someone gets prosecuted for this crime is when it's part of a plea deal where there are multiple charges involved and the defendant accepts it as part of negotiations.
"Think about it. Blacks were killed for suggesting they be allowed to vote. Gays have lost jobs solely because they are gay. Gunloons believe they are oppressed because they can't own a fully-automatic firearm or have to wait more than 30 minutes for a gun purchase."
ReplyDeleteThere are some parallels that can't be denied though.
All three have "anti" groups that do very little but lie about them.
All three have unscrupulous individuals that mislabel restrictions on them as "common sense" or otherwise a good thing.
All three have derogatory labels applied to them by unsavoury peoples.
All three can be considered the "good guys" in the debates about them.
There are various differences as Jade pointed out, but these four similarities cannot be disputed.
Anon: Your 'parallels' are easily easily debunked.
ReplyDeleteFor example, in the civil rights era, groups promoting civil rights were known as anti-racist or anti-segregationist. Conversely, they were often smeared as pro-communist.
So, the use of anti- or pro- is essentially meaningless. It's all a matter of perspective.
It's pretty telling that the gunloon side has virtually no scientific evidence to back up its claims; perhaps the most famous attempt by John Lott is widely regarded as fraudulent. In point of fact, gunloons tend to fill the gap of empirical data with "commonsense" anecdotes such as 'wouldn't you want a gun if you were being attacked/raped/robbed, etc?'
As for unsavory characters, it sn't my side who are attempting to classify people with long misdemeanor criminal records as "law-abiding citizens."
There is no "knowingly clause" with this law.
ReplyDelete"Yet, a felon can lie with abandon on a 4473 and get away with it almost every time. In fact, my lawyer says the only time someone gets prosecuted for this crime is when it's part of a plea deal where there are multiple charges involved and the defendant accepts it as part of negotiations."
Very true but not because of "knowingly" but rather because of lazy or incompetent courts.
I'd like to go back to the original point for a moment. Homophobia and racial discrimination are human rights issues, gun ownership is not.
ReplyDeleteIn spite of the silly and antiquated 2nd Amendment, my opinion is you have a right to own a gun just like you have a right to own a toaster in your kitchen. It's enough that you want one, and can meet the requirements, of course.
Actually Mike B, gun ownership IS a human rights issue if you take into consideration the right of every Human Being to be able to defend themselves.
ReplyDeleteYou need to find the "Second Amendment Primer" by Les Adams and read it, then read it again. You see, Les Adams was much like yourself, ambivalent or even hostile to gun owners and their rights as espoused in the second amendment. He was asked to do some research and find reasons why Americans shouldn't be able to own firearms. But in his research, he found how wrong he was.
In his research on the second amendment, he found that even in ancient Greece, a form of our second amendment was in force, albeit with different weapons for self defense. Mr. Adams traces the right of Humans to defend themselves all through history.
Did you know that they had a form of arms control in Medieval times? Yep, back then only "certain" people were allowed to own arms. Of course, arms back then were bows, swords and spears or lances. The only weapon a commoner could legally own was a knife. And only the King or favored persons were allowed to hunt game. A commoner could be put to death if caught hunting, depending on the mood of the King.
There is also this PDF of an explanation of the second amendment at this link;
http://www.virginiainstitute.org/publications/primer_on_const.php
Interestingly, Les Adams and the author of the PDF file are lawyers of some renown, so I reckon they would know what they're talking about.
Mike G.
"Blacks were killed for suggesting they be allowed to vote."
ReplyDeleteAnd today, we have racist white gun control advocates like Garry McCarthy enforcing the very same laws that left black people disarmed and unable to defend themselves from those who didn't want them to vote.