Sunday, November 13, 2011

Should Toy Guns be Banned?

ABC News reports on another case of the cops being mobilized for a toy gun. In this case no one was killed or injured.

 Maybe it's time to eliminate toy guns from our world. They, even more so than their real counterparts, do more harm than good.

When I was a kid, toy guns were like this.



Nowadays toy guns look more like this.


I say ban the sumbitches. What do you say.  Please leave a comment.

22 comments:

  1. Well, my parents refused to let me have toy guns of any kind, and now, I'm heavily armed. I say that a toy gun gives a child the opportunity to get to know the feel of the real thing without posing much danger. Really, how often is there a problem?

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  2. Greg Camp wrote:
    "and now, I'm heavily armed. I say that a toy gun gives a child the opportunity to get to know the feel of the real thing without posing much danger. Really, how often is there a problem?"

    Are you this unaware of the statistics that you can so callously say that?

    From the University of Michigan:

    Gun Safety for Kids and Youth

    What are the statistics about young people and firearm deaths and injuries?
    The 2002 edition of Injury Facts from the National Safety Council reports the following statistics [1] :

    In 1999, 3,385 children and youth ages 0-19 years were killed with a gun. This includes homicides, suicides, and unintentional injuries.
    This is equivalent to about 9 deaths per day, a figure commonly used by journalists.
    The 3,385 firearms-related deaths for age group 0-19 years breaks down to:Four teen boys
    214 unintentional
    1,078 suicides
    1,990 homicides
    83 for which the intent could not be determined
    20 due to legal intervention
    Of the total firearms-related deaths:
    73 were of children under five years old
    416 were children 5-14 years old
    2,896 were 15-19 years old

    For more information: Child Trends DataBank has available these teen homicide, suicide and firearm death statistics.

    In addition to firearm deaths, we need to look at how many children and young people are hurt by guns. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) reports that in 1997, 2,514 children aged 0-14 were non-fatally injured by guns. In the same year, 30,225 young people aged 15-24 sustained nonfatal firearm injuries. These statistics include suicide attempts and both intentional and accidental shootings [2].

    According to the CDC, the rate of firearm deaths among children under age 15 is almost 12 times higher in the United States than in 25 other industrialized countries combined. American children are 16 times more likely to be murdered with a gun, 11 times more likely to commit suicide with a gun, and nine times more likely to die in a firearm accident than children in these other countries [3].

    But Greg and the others who appear to insist on having their little guns really do so on the basis of emotion, not reason. And those emotions aren't good ones no matter how they try to dress it up.

    They can't be good ones when they insist on glorifying firearms in the face of these statistics, and all the other statistics of firearms destroying people's lives.

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  3. forgot to provide the link:

    http://med.umich.edu/yourchild/topics/guns.htm

    Wouldn't you think that a teacher would care more about kids?

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  4. dog gone:

    I'm sure that Mr. Camp carries to and from (if not in) school--because an armed classroom is a polite classroom.

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  5. Dog Gone,

    We were talking about toy guns. How often does a toy gun pose a danger to a child?

    But since you gave a pile of numbers, those don't look so bad in a nation of 300,000,000, especially in comparison to the many other reasons that people die. In addition, do you have more current figures?

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  6. I think he was asking about how often there is a problem with toy guns and kids.

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  7. Jim said...

    I think he was asking about how often there is a problem with toy guns and kids.


    No, I think it was pretty clear in the case of GC that he was advocating for toy guns to lead to more adults who wanted guns, through familiarity with realistic guns.

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  8. GC wrote:

    But since you gave a pile of numbers, those don't look so bad in a nation of 300,000,000, especially in comparison to the many other reasons that people die.


    The numbers are horrific, and have only INCREASED since these figures were collected. Maybe you should familiarize yourself with these numbers, including the more current figures.

    How many students would you have to lose from your classroom before you decided these stats were 'too bad'?

    They are horrible numbers, shameful statistics. How can you strap on your firearm, your fetish object, and say that you find that sick gratification more important than this:

    "According to the CDC, the rate of firearm deaths among children under age 15 is almost 12 times higher in the United States than in 25 other industrialized countries combined. American children are 16 times more likely to be murdered with a gun, 11 times more likely to commit suicide with a gun, and nine times more likely to die in a firearm accident than children in these other countries"

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  9. Dog Gone,

    My answers to you are these:

    1. I strap on or put into my pocket my handgun in the knowledge that no weapon of mine has ever shot anyone while I've owned it. (I do have a few antiques, so I can't vouch for them before I got them.)

    2. I'm aware of the numbers that you cite. As I've said before, we differ on values, not on facts.

    You cannot show me why X firearms deaths is too high on the basis of facts and logic alone. In your system of values, X is too high. In my system, individual rights are the first subject of consideration, especially since X is much lower than deaths due to other causes.

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  10. Jim,

    I was asking exactly what you observed. How often are toy guns a problem? You didn't expect Dog Gone to admit that she can't answer me, did you?

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  11. Two kids nearly got shot by cops here, recently, after they went running around, next to a community college, dressed in camo and sporting realistic-looking toy assault rifles.

    My kids don't have toy guns. They only glamorize our retarded gun culture. When they are older, and if they are interested in guns, I will get them professional lessons.

    Guns are things to be respected, not play-things. Toy guns and shooting games break down that wall of respect in formative young minds, minimalizing their danger.

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  12. Baldr Odinson,

    Nonsense. When I was a boy, I made toy guns out of any number of objects that vaguely resembled the real thing. The fascination with guns is natural, since guns are an exercise in what makes us human. They demonstrate our technological ability that overcomes our physical limitations. Playing with guns is healthy, and with some parental guidance, it can be an opportunity to learn the rules.

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  13. The numbers are horrific, and have only INCREASED since these figures were collected. Maybe you should familiarize yourself with these numbers, including the more current figures.

    Actually you would be wrong about the increase, they have not gone up.....

    2,896 were 15-19 years old

    I'll even spot you the 13-15 year olds....

    http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/10shrtbl09.xls

    2010
    13 to 16 298
    17 to 19 1,008
    1,306

    2009
    13 to 16 308
    17 to 19 1,051
    1,359

    2008
    13 to 16 363
    17 to 19 1,336
    1,699

    2007
    13 to 16 380
    17 to 19 1,272
    1,652

    2006
    13 to 16 389
    17 to 19 1,253
    1,642

    cut out the ~65% intercity drug crime, that could be eliminated by legalizing drugs for anyone that wants to poison themselves.....

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  14. Two kids nearly got shot by cops here, recently, after they went running around, next to a community college, dressed in camo and sporting realistic-looking toy assault rifles.

    Really, Nearly shot.....

    http://www.kval.com/news/local/127552743.html

    Were you wearing your brown trousers....

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  15. From:
    http://law.jrank.org/pages/474/Age-Crime-Variations-in-age-curve.html

    Crime types. The offenses that show the youngest peaks and sharpest declines are crimes that fit the low-yield, criminal mischief, "hell-raising" category: vandalism, petty theft, robbery, arson, auto theft, burglary, and liquor law and drug violations. Personal crimes like aggravated assault and homicide tend to have somewhat "older" age distributions (median ages in the late twenties), as do some of the public order offenses, public drunkenness, driving under the influence, and certain of the property crimes that juveniles have less opportunity to commit, like embezzlement, fraud, and gambling (median ages in late twenties or thirties). However, even these older age-distributions (e.g., fraud) have shifted toward younger peak ages in recent years (see below).

    Read more: Age and Crime - Variations In The Age Curve - Steffensmeier, Crimes, Adult, and Curves - JRank Articles http://law.jrank.org/pages/474/Age-Crime-Variations-in-age-curve.html#ixzz1diPY3Aky

    and

    http://www.childtrendsdatabank.org/?q=node/319

    Homicide and suicide are the second and third leading causes of death, respectively, among teens ages 15 to 19, after unintentional injury.1 Firearms were the instrument of death in 85 percent of teen homicides and 43 percent of teen suicides in 2007.2 While almost one in four youth firearm injuries results in death, non-firearm injuries result in death in only one out of every 760 cases.3

    Although other teens are responsible for many of the homicides of teens below age 18, two-thirds of the murderers are eighteen or older.4 Gang involvement has been associated with many teen murders; in 2002, nearly three-quarters of homicides of teens were attributed to gang violence.5 Although school-related homicides receive substantial attention, in the 2006-07 school year they accounted for less than two percent of all child homicides.6
    and this, from
    http://www.lcav.org/statistics-polling/gun_violence_statistics.asp

    Youth – Gun Violence & Gun Access

    Guns cause the death of 20 children and young adults (24 years of age and under) each day in the U.S.40

    Children and young adults (24 years of age and under) constitute over 41% of all firearm deaths and non-fatal injuries.41

    In the United States, over 1.69 million kids age 18 and under are living in households with loaded and unlocked firearms.42

    More than 75% of guns used in suicide attempts and unintentional injuries of 0-19 year-olds were stored in the residence of the victim, a relative, or a friend.43

    A 2000 study found that 55% of U.S. homes with children and firearms have one or more firearms in an unlocked place; 43% have guns without a trigger lock in an unlocked place.44

    The practices of keeping firearms locked, unloaded, and storing ammunition in a locked location separate from firearms may assist in reducing youth suicide and unintentional injury in homes with children and teenagers where guns are stored.45

    Many young children, including children as young as three years old, are strong enough to fire handguns.46

    Dangers of Gun Use for Self-Defense

    Using a gun in self-defense is no more likely to reduce the chance of being injured during a crime than various other forms of protective action.47

    Of the 13,636 Americans who were murdered in 2009, only 215 were killed by firearms (165 by handguns) in homicides by private citizens that law enforcement determined were justifiable.48

    A study reviewing surveys of gun use in the U.S. determined that most self-reported self-defense gun uses may well be illegal and against the interests of society.49

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  16. @ Thomas: Yes, they were nearly shot (and it was the same case that you linked to). I talked to one of the officers who responded. Crouched in the bushes, it was difficult to tell they were kids, and the tiny orange tip wasn't visible. Luckily, the officers didn't let their adrenaline get the best of them.

    So, what are you implying, Thomas? Do you deny the danger of the situation?

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  17. Would a responsible parent who has no agenda to justify ever allow his child to play outside with a realistic-lookiing toy gun? I don't think so.

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  18. I was down at Dick's Sporting Goods the other day--looking at guns--ZOMG, oNe11ty!

    I saw some very cute little "junior" .22 rifles finished in solid pink or pink camo (http://www.remington.com/product-families/firearms/rimfire-families/autoloading-model-597.aspx). They were, quite obviously, made that way, by the manufacturer, in the hopes that some proud parent would buy them for their little girl. I'm fairly certain that most cops have enough familiarity with such things to know that these are genuine firearms and not toys--but I wouldn't want to bet some kids life on it, either way.

    I drink some beers and ocassionally something a bit stronger. When I have a scotch or rum or some other sort of spirits I drink it neat or with maybe one small ice cube. I do that because I enjoy the taste of what I'm drinking, if I didn't enjoy it I wouldn't drink it. If I want to familiarize a child, or anyone else, with how firearms work I would use a real one. Using toys and indidious ad imagery to hook the young'uns is a tried and true scheme. Ask Joe Camel or Eddie Eagle.

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  19. Actually, I was kidding about the water guns. We've already played with them in the pool and at the beach. Somehow they didn't seem in the same category as the realistic toy guns that I imagine are in my boy's future.

    So, no, I don't say ban all water guns.

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  20. Mikeb302000;

    You bring up an interesting point. A lot of water guns are very unrealistic looking (I haven't owned one since I was about six) but not all of them. I'm guessing that if you put decorations on them and made them in mauve or some other color than black, it would cut down on their acceptance by a lot of kids.


    If I wanted my kids to be self-reliant I would get them interested in martial arts or dancing to learn to appreciate and control their bodies.

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  21. This is such an interesting blog. You are very knowledgeable about this subject. Please check out my site.
    Toy guns for kids

    ReplyDelete
  22. Gone are the days when children used to play with red yellow colored cheap plastic guns. Nowadays, they are making real like toy guns for children. I don't think we should worry about banning the toys altogether when changing the look of toy guns can be a better solution available.

    Regards,
    Jacky

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