AZ Central reports
That works out to about one a year, more or less. Is that average for a gun range, do you think?A man died of a self-inflicted gunshot Saturday at the Scottsdale Gun Club, according to police.The suicide at the popular club on 14860 North Northsight Blvd. took place at 2:30 p.m.It is the third self-inflicted shooting there since 2007, according to records. Two were intentional and fatal.In May, a 52-year-old man accidentally shot himself in the chest at the club, which bills itself as America's largest indoor range. He was conscious and talking while en route to a hospital.In October 2007, a 20-year-old Scottsdale man fatally shot himself in the head. He had written a suicide note.
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Notice how rare these events are? There are lots of gun ranges, and they're frequently used. But suicide is a person's right. I don't know why some bother to go to a gun range to do it, but that's not the main point.
ReplyDeleteEverything's rare if you divide it by the right number. The once a year frequency is truly rare if you divide it by all the rounds fired at that range during a year.
DeleteGreat rationale, Greg.
I say it's too frequent and not enough emphasis is placed on gun safety and keeping guns out of the hands of unfit people.
We're talking about gun ranges here. Accidents and suicides and homicides are rare at those. Given just how rare, it's a good point to say that a gun range is one of the safest places in the country.
DeleteFunny, I can't seem to find a "right" to suicide in the constitution or any law anywhere, with the exception of medically-assisted suicide in a handful of states under very strict conditions and medical/psychological evaluations. Leave it to extremists like Greg not to mourn suicides, or even celebrate it as a "right," in the name of their gun-love.
DeleteOregonian, when you can show me the word, abortion, in the Constitution, I'll show you the word, suicide. The right to privacy covers a lot, no?
DeleteBut once again, you make the error of thinking that the government grants us our rights. That's false. We have rights, some of which are specifically ennumerated by the Constitution. We have them at the moment of birth.
By the way, did you refer to me over at Common Gunsense? I haven't been allowed to comment there in months, and I only visit when Weer'd Beard refers to an article.
You make a red herring argument, Greg. There's no right to abortion, either.
DeleteRefer to you? No. I wouldn't care to even if I had a reason.
But suicide is a person's right.
ReplyDeleteThat is an interesting statement and one very pertinent to mb's post. Suicide is one helluva lot easier if one owns a gun. Think of how hard it is to kill a big fish after you have landed it in the boat or on the dock. Imagine the nerve it would take to jump off of a lover's leap, even if your location had a convenient one. Only a Japanese Samurai of the twelfth century would have the intestinal fortitude to commit hara-kiri.
Here is a famous suicide for you. You probably don't remember Brian Keith, who as a middle-aged actor portrayed the father of two adorable redheads on "Family Affair," a popular television show. Sometime in his seventies, he was diagnosed with lung cancer. He shot himself dead. He, no doubt avoided a slow, protracted, painful and terrifying death.
There is speculation as to why Tony Scott jumped off of the bridge.
I find your insight very revealing Greg, because you think for yourself. Yes, guns make suicide a simple pull of the trigger. Just point the goddamn thing at your temple. No more pain. No more frustration, insecurity, sense of inadequacy. You name it. Over. Like the video game requiring two more quarters.
No, suicide is not a right. It is only an option. Just about anybody leaves someone behind. A self-inflicted death of a spouse, a father, a son, a friend? Sorry. It's just fucking wrong. It's about the most wrong, most totally pussy thing that a person can do.
So in that one comment, you curse, you use a crass term for a woman's anatomy as a put-down, and you decide what all of us get to do with our lives. When it comes to actual content, you waffle. Here's one case where it made sense, but here's another where we don't know, and here's more where you don't like it, and on and on.
DeleteThis is the difference between people who use principles to guide their beliefs and people who have to feel their way through things. One of my core principles is the freedom of the individual. That doesn't mean that I have no responsibilities to anyone else, but it does mean that ultimately, I'm responsible to and for myself. What, if any, principles guide you?
I note also that you didn't address my main point that suicides at gun ranges are rare.
The forefathers of this country were very specific and deliberate in their wording of the articles that established this Constitutional Republic we call The United States of America. In the Declaration of Independence there was one key piece that sums this all up: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
DeleteThe right to life and liberty means you are free to do what you want with your life so as long as it does not infringe upon anyone else's rights. Sure, you may consider it to be a cowardly act to commit suicide as many in this country or even world do but that does not change the fact that it is your right live your life or to end your life. According to the Christian believers the person that chooses to end their life by their own hands will be judged before god. Is it your job to judge what these people do with their life? The same argument goes for people who smoke, are obese or live other lifestyles that put them at higher risks of "premature death". It's not your place to judge others for how they live or end their lives.
Jolly, when they wrote "all men are created equal," they owned slaves and denied women basic human rights. So, please don't try to build an argument around here based on that nonsense.
DeleteGreg, suicide is no more a right that is homicide. Like Flying Junior said, it's a option. And your callous attitude towards it is foolish since most suicides are not thought-out decisions, they're desperate attempts to relieve a temporary problem.
1. There's nothing foolish about the often-quoted line from the Declaration of Independence. It's taken us a while to understand what it means, but that doesn't negate the wisdom of the statement. Nor do the personal actions of the man who wrote it.
Delete2. A person's life belongs to that person alone. You want society to enforce what you believe to be good choices on everyone, while I believe in freedom. You want a dictatorship, while I want a representative republic.
My attitude isn't callous. I recognize that a lot of people in this world make bad choices. The problem is that when a society tries to control too many choices, that program ends up stifling the creativity of the citizens and corrupting the integrity of the leaders. You want authoritarian rule to straighten everyone out, but that will just end up being authoritarian rule for the benefit of the ruler. I can recall no exceptions to that.
The 52 year old was no accident. It was a failed suicide attempt. He has since recovered (physically if not mentally) and has posted pictures on social media shooting at Caswell's in Mesa. Perhaps Caswell's, Scottsdale Gun Club and other valley shooting ranges should share lists of unwelcome "customers".
ReplyDeleteThat's interesting. Perhaps he'll be like most people who fail at suicide and never try it again.
Delete