Monday, August 6, 2012

Tucson Survivors Demand a Plan


  1. Another bunch of whiny liberals always wanting the government to do something for them.
    orlin sellers

  2. Anyone who signs that petition is either a control loon or a fool. The text says that we need a plan without offering any plan of its own, but since this is put out by Mayors Against Guns, it will end up being twisted into supposed support for gun control.

    What this also fails to recognize is that violent crime rates are falling. Thus, we already have a plan, and it's working.

  3. Arizona is a shall issue when it would be better off as a may issue. Jared Loughner was known to law enforcement as a drug user, and as a man who was dangerously mentally ill, and for having contacted Gabby Giffords in a creepy way long before he tried to kill her.

    Not one but TWO law enforcement officers delivered the letter requiring Jared Loughner to either get a psychiatric assessment assuring the school he was not dangerously mentally ill, or he had to leave his local college. His parents and Loughner met with the school as a result of that - and he withdrew rather than comply, as all parties apparently agreed he was likely to be unable to get psychiatric clearance.

    There were 5 incidents with Loughner prior to that where the college police were involved, and as of the delivery of the letter, law enforcement knew of those as well. They also knew he was a drug user.

    Drug user, dangerously mentally ill --------and law enforcement could not prevent Loughner from acquiring a firearm and committing a mass shooting. No, no - the NRA would never allow such reasonable protection of people from the armed mentally ill!

    Seventy five percent of mass shootings occur with legal firearms, and of those committed by crazy people - that they were experiencing dangerous mental illness was well known.

    The government has been held hostage by the NRA, and Walmart (as members of ALEC) long enough. It is time we have better laws regulating guns, laws that work, laws that make sense, laws that are much more restrictive, laws that allow law enforcement the discretion to stop people they know are nuts and dangerous from shooting people.

    Crime rates are falling......except for homicides with guns. In Wisconsin they have been going up since the 2010 election cycle where the ALEC funded right wingers forced through much more lenient gun laws. As a result, the majority of the increase is attributed to legal weapons in the hands of domestic abusers, per the various city studies. Non-lethal shootings are up significantly as well.

    NO crime reduction has ever been associated with more guns; increases have.

    Do your homework gentlemen; your side is losing. Truth and facts are not on your side.

    1. My dearest DG said, "NO crime reduction has ever been associated with more guns; increases have."

      orlin sellers

    2. Dog Gone, you may repeat all of that as much as you want, but consider:

      1. If you gun control people only wanted to make sure that the dangerously mentally ill were treated for their diseases and kept away from weapons, we could work together. We know, however, that you want more.

      2. You complain about the homicide rate with guns, as if the tool used is what is important. The homicide rate is falling. You're showing your obsession by singling out guns as the only method of killing that matters.

      3. Your paranoia about advocacy groups is disturbing. None of those laws that you dislike could have passed if the voters--the people who put candidates into office, remember--had voted in gun control supporters instead. What you can't get around, over, or through is the fact that American voters aren't electing your kind.

      4. You say that more restrictive laws would make sense, but again, you neglect to account for the drop in rates of all kinds of violent crime since the early 90s. As gun laws have grown looser, violent crime has diminished. If guns and gun ownership is as bad as you believe, we should all be dead.

      Since you rarely address the specific points that I make, I don't expect you to answer this comment, either. The good news is that others are reading this blog. They'll see how you fail to answer this example of critical thinking and facts.

    3. No DogGone, we will not have a system where a government bureaucrat decides if you get to have Constitutionally guaranteed rights or not. In case you haven't noticed, "may issue" and other government control schemes are disappearing while common sense and fair shall issue is replacing it.

      "Seventy five percent of mass shootings occur with legal firearms"

      I'd call bullshit to your made up stat but since we honor your rules of engagement here, that must be true until proven otherwise.

      However, even if that number were true, the number of mass shootings are a very small percentage of the criminal use of guns and the total number of guns used in crimes, mass shooting or otherwise are infinitesimally small in relation to the number of guns used in safe, legal pursuits in this country.

      Sorry, you and your control freak friends lose again. We will not permit your silly schemes. Thanks for contributing though.

    4. FatWhiteMan, let's take the claim that three quarters of the firearms used in mass shootings were purchased legally. Of course, private sales are legal in free states, but I'm presuming that the claim refers to a weapon that was bought from an FFL dealer. This means that as far as the government is concerned, the person buying the gun is a good citizen. Now, I don't object to keeping violent criminals and the dangerously insane from having guns, but what's being argued here is that since these mass killers passed a background check, we can't trust anyone. Therefore, no good citizen should have a gun.

      That's the claim of the control loons. They won't admit it, unless forced to do so, but that's what they want: a total ban. That's also what we will never allow.

    5. "That's the claim of the control loons. They won't admit it, unless forced to do so, but that's what they want: a total ban. That's also what we will never allow."

      Its about control, not fighting crime. If not then why would they push for an Assault Weapons BAN? A weapon that is used in relatively few crimes. Why waste your energy on that if your honest goal is crime prevention?

    6. The Loughner shooting proved a few things to me, including

      1. armed citizens are powerless to stop a mass shooting
      2. high capacity magazines are bad news
      3. "may issue" is the only sensible way to go, and not only for carry permits but for gun ownership itself.

    7. 1. Disarmed citizens have much less ability to stop a mass shooting.

      2. The round count of the magazine has nothing to do with it. Someone who practices changing out magazines can cause as much carnage with ten-round magazines as a knucklehead with a thirty-three-round magazine.

      3. As always, to have the illusion of safety, you're willing to give up the rights of others.

  4. All of that and none of the above mentioned got JL into treatment, in Arizona, with one of the most flexible statutes for involuntary commitment and allows anyone with knowledge of the person's behavior - a teacher, a parent, a police officer, a friend - to petition for a court-ordered mental health evaluation, the first step toward involuntary treatment.

    No one stepped up and got JL the help he needed.....

  5. Tucson Survivors Demand a Plan. Yeah, the elimination of gun free zones. The only place that attracts mass murders is a place that they can wreak terror unopposed for as long as they can is in a gun free zone. Way more often than not.

    And those mass shooters should get the FIREING SQUAD!

  6. Ah, pretty little stupid Dog Gone this is exactly why we don't listen to you....

    Because you are a precious little sack of liar.....

    TH total Homicides
    FH firearm homicides






    Please just shut you lying mouth....

    1. Thomas, what did Dog Gone say that you're responding to with these stats?

  7. Crime rates are falling......except for homicides with guns.