Wednesday, December 26, 2012

Seattle Bar Shooting - 1 Dead, 1 Wounded

The wanted man.

 Local news reports
A 30-year-old Seattle man was killed and another man wounded in a shooting at a crowded suburban bar early Monday, police said.

Police issued an arrest warrant Monday evening for a 19-year-old man in connection with the shooting.

The shooting broke out just after 1 a.m. at Munchbar at Bellevue Square, an upscale shopping center about 10 miles east of Seattle, said Carla Iafrate, a spokeswoman for the Bellevue Police Department.

More than 600 people were inside the venue at the time of the shooting. "It was a very complicated scene," Iafrate said.

Iafrate said the suspect police are seeking, Ja'mari Alexander Alan Jones, was convicted as a juvenile in the high-profile 2008 beating death of a Seattle street performer. Jones was sentenced to less than a year in juvenile detention on a first-degree manslaughter charge in that case.
This story illustrates the need for a couple of our favorite common sense gun control laws.

1. No guns in bars.
2. May issue licensing for gun ownership which would allow the local authorities to deny guns to someone with a violent juvenile past.

In addition to calling out for those reforms, this story also makes one wonder if the dead or wounded person was the result of collateral damage done by a concealed carry permit holder. Whenever there is gun play in a crowded place this is a possibility. In the confusion it may easily go undetected.

What's your opinion?  Please leave a comment.


  1. Mikeb, the thug was convicted of murder. Unless his record has been expunged, he's a prohibited person already. Again, until you know about the gun laws currently in existence, your demands for new ones look foolish. It's also against the rules already to take a gun into the bar area of a restaurant or to be drinking alcohol while carrying in Washington. But ballistics testing will likely tell who shot whom. I realize that you don't like to give investigations any time, of course.

    The real problem here is that this thug beat someone to death and was released after only a year. He should still be in prison with years to go on his sentence.

    1. So what gunsuck sold him guns using the gun show loophole? We need universal registration so that gunsucks who violate the law can be prosecuted and executed.

  2. May issue also allows local authorities to deny guns for blacks, or other minorities, as has been done in the past. It also allows them to demand bribes, or just sit on the permit requests and totally deny the right.

    This is exactly why so many states in the South used to have may issue permitting for carry. Any good ole boy could pack heat legally, but the sheriff could deny a gun for anyone he didn't like or who was darker than normal.

    When we ditched "May Issue" we ditched one of the last vestiges of de jure discrimination. It lasted too long, and we're not going back.

    1. Tennesseean, you're using "may issue" in its typical sense, referring to carry licenses. Mikeb is talking about may-issue licensing just to own one gun.

    2. Greg,

      I realized that he was using it for ownership. I was simply using carry as an example of the application of "may issue." Guess I wasn't clear enough about that.

      The abuse was bad enough under "may issue" carry permits. Under "may issue" permitting for ownership, it would be easy for a locale to completely disarm whatever minority they wanted--blacks, gays, liberals, conservatives, Muslims . . .

    3. I realize there are abuses possible, but they need not be the norm. There's corruption of all sorts, but that doesn't mean we scrap the whole system.

      This boy had a terrible juvenile history. Are you comfortable with his being eligible to own guns legally when he became an adult?

    4. Tennesseean, sometimes, Mikeb can be confusing, but you're exactly right. Any may-issue system is an opportunity for abuse.

      Mikeb, this young man was not eligible to buy a gun. Why do you insist on being so completely dense? You care nothing for the fact that a murderer was released to the general public, so long as laws can be passed to make gun ownership more difficult for those of us who murder no one.

    5. Mike,

      Any may issue system is fatally flawed by the ability to abuse it in this way. This is why we don't allow discretion of Law Enforcement or others in granting permits to demonstrate; we just have a set of criteria and if you meet them, you get the permit.

      To go back to carry permits as an example of a shall issue regime in practice, you have to meet the requirements, a class, a written test, a shooting test, and a background check that often takes 3 months as they check for everything. If you have arrests to explain (e.g. show you were found innocent, or it was dismissed for lack of evidence, etc.) then it takes closer to 6 months.

      The requirements vary from state to state, but you DO have to meet them. All that shall issue means is that if you meet these requirements, they can't deny your permit because they don't like you for some reason that they can't show proof of.

      How is it that may issue would be more effective than simply redoubling efforts to make sure that the shall issue background check database is accurate and up to date? Or that the NICS system from the Brady Bill is accurate and up to date?

      As for this boy, your juvenile history does get sealed, but any prohibitions from owning firearms live on forever. This is something that even many lawyers who only dabble in juvenile criminal cases don't realize.