Twenty years ago, Bob Zimmerman ran into a panhandler who wouldn't take "no" for an answer.Does anyone see the problem with that rationale? If anything the incident in Florida proved that a gun is not necessary. All the fear-driven what-if scenarios are not justification for carrying a gun. They're just fear-driven what-if scenarios.
The Germantown Hills resident was at a rest stop in Florida, and the man wanted money.
Things didn't get physical, Zimmerman said, but if he hadn't gotten into his truck as quickly as he did, he's sure there would have been a fight.
From that point on, Zimmerman knew he needed a gun.
Men who feel intimidated by their own fantasies, sometimes make the mistake of thinking a gun will supply the answer. They're wrong, as we've seen earlier today, and yesterday, and meantime gun-rights fanatics are calling for even fewer restrictions.
What's your opinion? Please leave a comment.
I carry concealed and open due to my job requires me to carry a gun and for the fact i dont live in the best of neighborhoods anymore
ReplyDeletenow he's got his gun and he will kill instead of getting in his truck and driving away.........so sad for him and america!
ReplyDeletetom webber
miami
You are either assuming or projecting. When armed, you can only legally utilize the weapon if you are in imminent danger, not just because you have a firearm. If the behavior you envision were common, we would have a death rate many times what it is now.
DeleteBut, Rev., don't you see the problem when different people have a different idea of what "imminent danger" is?
DeleteThe standard is that it's what other reasonable people would agree with--the same standard that applies throughout our laws. Your problem, Mikeb, is that you don't believe that ordinary citizens are reasonable.
DeleteMikeB: “…don't you see the problem when different people have a different idea of what "imminent danger" is?”
DeleteI agree that is a big problem. There are all kinds of people who weren’t there and read a line in a news report about an incident of self-defense and reach the conclusion that it was bogus. We’ve even seen this when someone was pinned down getting their head repeatedly smashed into the concrete.
My problem is that with most DGUs, especially of the brandishing kind, which according to you guys accounts for 90%, there are no witnesses. What the hell else is the gun owner going to say - maybe it wasn't necessary and I acted prematurely?
DeleteMikeb, let's take your scenario. Someone with a gun merely displays the weapon, rather than firing it, and the other person runs away. You wonder if that was illegitimate. All right, why doesn't the person who was driven off file a police report? If someone waved a gun at me, I'd tell the cops. The typical reason for not reporting would be that the person in question was up to no good. Who's going to report being driven off from committing a crime? (Well, there was that one nut case that we discussed a few days ago, but surely you recognize that as rare.)
DeleteYep, criminals tend to attack people when there are no witnesses.
DeleteAll right, how about this in order to be fair and consistent. Any of you guys who ever demanded proof or evidence from me must immediately renounce the brandishing type DGUs.
DeleteWhat say ye?
Why? If I use a gun to drive away an attacker, but I don't fire, that doesn't count?
DeleteThe point is that the good people don't have to run away from places where they have the right to be. Good people can go about their lives. Mikeb, in your perversity, you insist that we should surrender to evil. Sure, you say that we should be strong enough to fight off all attackers without the need for a gun, but that's unrealistic. Most of us have jobs and lives that don't leave time to become UFC fighters.
ReplyDeleteThis is not fear. It's a rational assessment of the genuine dangers in the world and a rational response to those dangers.
Just last night in my martial arts class (I train in martial arts so I have additional options if someone ever attacks me), our instructor told us about a time that three guys attacked him and his friend. He regained consciousness some time later in an ambulance. His extensive martial arts training and black belt didn't do him much good.
DeleteGood thing he didn't have a gun. Those three guys would have taken it off him and used it.
DeleteYou can't know that, Mikeb. You want that to be the case because of your bigotry against guns and gun owners, but you can't prove it.
DeleteWhy do I carry concealed? When serious bodily harm or death are imminent after all of the other tactics for dealing with an aggressor fail. In other words it is my option of last resort.
ReplyDeleteKeep in mind that a young, single, healthy person -- especially a male in good physical shape -- can often successfully flee an attack or defend themselves "hand-to-hand". For everyone else, however, their chances of surviving an attack unarmed and unharmed are low. How is a 110 pound women going to stop a rape or physical attack? How is a father or mother with two young children supposed to outrun an attacker carrying two children under their arms? How is a mother or father supposed to fight off a group of men who want to gang rape their teenage daughter? How is a 60 year old man or women supposed to fend off a violent attack? The unfortunate solution to all of those questions is a firearm. That is why my elderly father, wife, myself, and everyone else that I know carries concealed.
"a male in good physical shape -- can often successfully flee an attack"
DeleteWait a minute, Anonymous. In this very thread Greg made it clear that one of the benefits of carrying a gun is you don't have to run away. He'd rather kill the aggressor than harm his fragile ego by backing down.
And I'm afraid he's not the only one who thinks like that.
Mikeb, you're spreading bigotry again. I've told you and Democommie before that I'd only use a firearm to defend myself if my life were in danger. You keep spouting nonsense by claiming that carrying a gun is about ego.
DeleteRead what I said. I said that we should be able to go about our lives doing our legal activities without having to run away. In addition, trying to run adds to the danger. Turning your back on an aggressor only gives him an easier target.
Greg, you're caught lying again. Up-thread you said, "The point is that the good people don't have to run away from places where they have the right to be."
DeleteThat doesn't sound like you're limiting your macho gun use to "if my life were in danger."
No lie there. Someone mouthing off is just mouthing off. I'm not going to pull my gun for that. Now if Mr. Chin Music decides to add threats against my life, that moves me into Code Orange. If he is actively putting me in danger, my gun is coming out.
DeleteIf you'd stop seeing me through your own prejudices, you'd understand my points better.
Greg, I'm really trying to understand. How do you KNOW there is threat and not just of a little tussle about to happen, lethal threat?
DeleteIf someone bumps into me, that's nothing. If someone makes nasty remarks, I'll respond to or ignore them, depending on the situation. A punch, slap, kick, or other form of violence like that crosses the line. Once a person indicates that he's willing to use force against someone innocent, the innocent party shouldn't have to wait for more violence.
DeleteSee, I'm not interested in having a fist fight. I'm a mild-mannered writer and English teacher. I'll debate people who are willing to have a civil conversation, but I don't have the inclination to get into physical altercations. I just want to be left to live my life.
I'm not out searching for someone to shoot. I go about my day, doing legitimate activities. If someone wants to use violence against me, I want to have the tool to stop the threat. I hope that merely displaying the weapon would be enough, but that's down to circumstances. Don't hit me; don't threaten me with a weapon, and you've got nothing to fear from me.
For a gunsuck, they believe that they have the god-given right to walk into a biker bar and loudly announce "Bikers are pussies." Whenb you have a gun, you make stupid decisions which ensure that the gun is necessary. I don't carry because I am not a moron. I also consider carefully how safe areas are, and don't go where it is not safe. I used to live near East St Louis. I would drive right through the city every morning on my way across the river. I would NEVER drive through it after dark. Every month, some idiot would go there are 2 AM, and get killed.
ReplyDeleteWhen you have a gun, you make stupid choices.
When you have a keyboard, you sometimes make very stupid posts. Yours is full of crap.
DeleteAnonymous, I can't speak to what you would do if you were armed, but I don't go anywhere or do anything armed that I wouldn't go or do unarmed. I don't typically go into any kind of bar, for example. But look at what you're arguing. According to you, we should surrender the night and areas of this free country to thugs.
DeleteI have no interest in shouting what you said in a biker bar. Such an action would be rude. In my experience, gun owners tend to be polite and respectful of the rights of others. Gun control freaks, by contrast, are so often dismissive, crude, and enraged.
Rev. Jim and Greg, do you deny that some gun owners act just like Anonymous said?
DeleteSome? Sure, just as some people in any group do bad things. That number is much smaller than you're willing to admit, especially when it comes to carry license holders. Here's a question for you:
DeleteDo you believe that we should organize society based on the actions of a few bad actors, or along lines appropriate to the vast majority of good citizens?
Not so fast. We haven't agreed that it is indeed a "few."
DeleteBy percentage of gun owners, it's a few. But here's an offer: Post an article giving the numbers as you see them--defensive gun uses, murders, injuries, gun owners, carry license holders, the whole enchilada. Give your sources for that information. We'll reply with ours.
Delete" If anything the incident in Florida proved that a gun is not necessary. All the fear-driven what-if scenarios are not justification for carrying a gun. They're just fear-driven what-if scenarios." -- Absolutely false. Not to mention, we do not have to justify the legal exercise of a RIGHT. Also, they are not scenarios, people are attacked daily, being able to effect self defense is warranted.
ReplyDeleteRev., in the justification given, the guy was able to leave without being armed and without getting into a fight. Does that make sense to you?
DeleteI carry concealed for two simple reasons. The notion that you can retreat and get to safety is absurdly impossible in the real world. Equally absurd is the notion that the police will be able to materialize out of the blue and stop an attack upon my person or loved one before harm is done.
ReplyDeleteI’ll provide a real life example that occurred to me and my friends to illustrate my point. We were walking home one night and were attacked by a couple of thug’s; we got away and ran as fast as we could to escape attack. In fact, we ran about a half a mile before they caught us and began punching my buddy in the head. Only his screaming sent them away. The whole episode took only 60 seconds (if that)
Had they attacked us with knives, or bats, or even a continued bare fisted assault a firearm would have been an ideal option to stop the attack. Regarding, using the firearm effectively. I can covertly grasp, draw, present and discharge it accurately in just a little over two seconds.
That attack occurred to my friends and me at the peak of our physical fitness and we still could not get away. Today, my friends and I would not make it fifty feet before being beaten or killed.
Thank you
They didn't attack you with knives or bats. They did what they did, no more than that. What the hell kind of justification is that for carrying a gun? Would it be better to kill someone like that rather than taking a little beating?
DeleteYou might as well invent any wild possibility of what could happen. It's fear of the imaginary, of your own fantasies.
Mikeb, are you volunteering to go everywhere with all of us to take a beating for us?
DeleteGood citizens shouldn't have to run until they're caught and beaten. This is exactly what I mean when I say that you want us to surrender to violent thugs. The good news is that Americans won't accept your vision of society.
ok mike, you need to define how much of a beating is acceptable before potentially lethal counter measures can be used. Keep in mind, at some point you will likely be unable to respond and are probably dead at that point, but at least you did not use a gun to kill anyone right?
DeleteI don't accept your solution which seems to be use the gun before it's too late, which automatically means in most cases you use it unnecessarily.
DeleteSo your answer is that thugs get to beat on anyone they wish and the only appropriate response is to hit back? Fortunately, U.S. law doesn't follow your ideas.
DeletePeople die from beatings all the time - others suffer permanent brain damage. A person who is not an aggressor should not have to take a beating in any situation. Period - end of sentence.
DeleteMikeB: “I don't accept your solution which seems to be use the gun before it's too late.”
DeleteBut it is ok to use the gun after it is too late? Good to know.
Physical aggression can be as mild as a shove. Frail Liberty is already talking about brain damage and death. Your way, the guy who shoves you is dead, and you call it legit.
DeleteNo Mike, not true at all. Deescalation techniques end most incidents, presentation of a weapon end most of the rest. You don't pull and shoot just because you get shoved - but you should not have to take a beating either. By the time you realize it is more than an ass whopping, it is already too late to do anything about it.
DeleteExactly, so you must pull the gun before it's too late, thereby ensuring that most times it will have been unnecessary. I think we can agree now that the 95% brandishing DGUs are not to be counted.
DeleteMike, it is really disgusting to hear the anger and spite in your commentary.
ReplyDeleteYou want everyone disarmed so criminals can have free reign.
You call everyone who carries, crazy or paranoid, or we fear some imaginary fantasy...
Wow, you are so afraid of guns I bet you never leave your house and just blog all day.
If you do leave your house you really can't be so afraid of folks that carry guns.
So you just want to cause trouble because you can prove how tough you are without a gun.
Dude, this in the damn internet.
Go downtown and show those gang bangers how super tough you are with just your 2 hands and your big mouth ...
Anonymous, is this your first comment here? You should give yourself a name so we can identify your highly intelligent commentary. How about, Mr. gunistheanswer, or something like that?
ReplyDeleteI don't want everyone disarmed. Some people have good reason to carry concealed. I would like them to be better qualified, that's all.
I do go out, believe it or not, and when I do I see how silly you guys are.
To answer the question you asked in the title, though, I carry my gun concealed because open carry is illegal in most of Arkansas.
ReplyDelete