As much as I strive to avoid biblical references, this one is perfectly appropriate. She ties in the famous American Journal of Epidemiology study with two incidents in the news, one recent and one old but famous.
Friday, January 11, 2013
Living by the Sword
Dog Gone wrote an interesting piece, Those who live by the sword, die by the sword.
As much as I strive to avoid biblical references, this one is perfectly appropriate. She ties in the famous American Journal of Epidemiology study with two incidents in the news, one recent and one old but famous.
As much as I strive to avoid biblical references, this one is perfectly appropriate. She ties in the famous American Journal of Epidemiology study with two incidents in the news, one recent and one old but famous.
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So even the the UK has more homicide then the US you think guns don't help? Last I checked we are the highest gun owner around the world, yet we don't even rank in tenth place when it comes to gun crimes? Two people with guns are killed as to how many with out guns in "Gun Free Zones" But I forget solders and cops carry guns and they are never killed either huh.
ReplyDelete"So even the the UK has more homicide then the US you think guns don't help?"
DeleteHuh?
Another gunsuck wack checks in, stupid but certain.
DeleteSeriously? Kieth Ratliff isn't even in the ground yet, and his family still doesn't have answers, but you are going to repost a picture of him with a caption like that?
ReplyDeleteSick, Mike. Westboro Baptist Sick. You and Dog Gone should both be ashamed of yourselves.
Yet again extremism trumps decency. No side can claim innocence in extinguishing the "intelligent debate" that is longed for.
DeleteYeah, that is pretty sick but it does make a point. And I don't believe in the silent period after gun tragedies. It's too useful to your side of the debate, which is the real reason you want silence not the "respect" thing.
DeleteJust admit it Mike. You're a sick fuck who gets off on hearing about gun owners dying.
DeleteMike,
DeleteNote that I didn't object when you posted the news story about Kieth's death. If you want to talk about him being an example of guns not making a person safer, fine. I'm willing to have that discussion now or later.
However, that caption is not conducive to that debate. That caption is a glib, smartass way of gloating over someone's death, not the pithy way of pointing out a "fallacy" that Dog Gone thinks it is.
There's a difference between using people's misfortune to illustrate points in your argument and posting pictures of them with captions that are nothing but glib schadenfreude parading as wit.
I know it sounds that way, but I don't think it is a case of schadenfreude or gloating. I think it's a shocking and politically incorrect was of making the point we keep making.
DeleteKeep putting lipstick on it; a pig's a pig.
DeleteThere's a difference between being shocking and politically incorrect, and gloating over an opponent's death to make a point.
If you posted about the story and said, "I guess all those guns didn't protect him." And if you elaborated on this point in a whole post, that would be one thing. When you show a picture of him and say, "Oh well, I guess somebody was willing to take your guns from your cold dead hands," wit the glib tone of the photoshopping, you're crossing the line of acceptable behavior to still be considered a respectful and honest debater.
Is Mikeb any different from E.N.? He has shown himself to be ideologically indistinguishable.
ReplyDeleteLet me begin by saying any act of violence, whether committed with a gun or not is a serious issue. Nothing I say here or anywhere else should be construed as suggesting I think otherwise. The underlying problem with epidemiological and public health studies of anything is the underlying assumption that the issue being studied must, of necessity be considered a public health issue and that public health and epidemiological approaches are the appropriate way to address the issue. The nice thing about assumptions, of course, is that they are difficult to challenge. That is, after all, the nature of assumptions. When Dr. John Snow suggested to town officials that removing the handle from the Broad Street water pump would stop a cholera outbreak, he was proven correct. Of course, this didn't address the underlying issue...sewage leaking into the water supply. The temptation for pro gun control folks is to say "if we remove the pump handle (outlaw or further restrict access to firearms) we will stop the epidemic (people being killed with guns)". There are multiple problems with this approach. I'll just touch on the low hanging fruit. First, we aren't talking about a single pump handle, but rather, millions of firearms. Second, is the assumption that people currently owning these firearms will comply with any of the varying restrictions being suggested. Third, is the fact that some proposed solutions could immediately "criminalize" potentially millions of otherwise law abiding people. Fourth, just like the Broad Street pump handle didn't deal with the real cause of cholera, proposed gun legislation doesn't deal with the underlying problems of why people act violently. This is of particular interest to me because we know far more about the underlying causes of violence than Dr. Snow knew about what caused cholera but show a profound reluctance to address them. Fifth, if we were to both address the underlying causes and further restrict access to some or all firearms until the "epidemic" is under control, it is hard to believe that a liberty once lost would be easily, if ever, regained. Sixth, public health/epidemiological approaches do not, necessarily lend themselves well to addressing civil liberties.
ReplyDeleteI have never said that owning or even carrying a gun is a magic shield against acts of violence against me. I've always said that my gun improves my odds.
ReplyDeleteBut let's employ a technique commonly seen here. The news article about this incident is sketchy. Was he in a gun-free zone? Was he allowed to carry and in fact carrying at the time? Was this an ambush by gun control freaks? No one is investigating.
Dog Gone's title is cute, but is she claiming that no unarmed person is murdered? Or is she claiming that people are only killed by methods that they themselves have available to them? She can't seriously mean that gun owners will all be killed by firearms, since there's about 100,000,000 of us and millions of us who carry.
Turning to her title for the piece, it is incumbent upon a person making an argument, that any quotes used be used in context. In this case, the blogger to whom you refer failed to do so. Strictly from a grammatical and textual standpoint, the quote with which she entitled this piece refers to those who live a life characterized by violence. That is, those whose regular and settled way of life was one of violence. It is a general and universal truth that those who live like that do tend to die that way. It was true thousands of years ago and it remains true today. What's interesting is that it was true long before the advent of firearms. If we wish to use this quote in the current debate, and if we want to argue honestly, then we are obligated to keep these things in mind.
ReplyDeleteThe same guy DG quotes also said this, "And let him who has no sword sell his mantle and buy one."
ReplyDeleteorlin sellers
Dog Gone said this? The one who has a carry permit?
ReplyDeleteExactly. She has passed her test for brilliance by acknowledging her own brilliance. If we want to be considered qualified, we must acknowledge it too. Dog Gone will keep you safe, so long as you worship her.
DeleteBut do we have to sacrifice a goat in her name? No one is checking into that.
Alas, another pro-gun extremist who glorified violence and lethal weapons has, surprise!, died in a violent manner from a lethal weapon. There are plenty more examples. J.T. Ready comes to mind.
ReplyDeleteMy blog post on Ratliff: http://newtrajectory.blogspot.com/2013/01/if-only-hed-had-gun-to-defend-himself.html
Do you allow comments over there, or are you still talking to yourself?
DeleteToo funny. One more gunsuck gets a taste of his or her own medicine.
ReplyDeleteBehold, the wild Anonymous shows that he's the type of sick fuck who finds tragedies such as murders to be funny when they happen to people who own guns. While this is surely the sign of a mind that has been twisted by hatred, one has to admire his integrity in admitting why he likes pictures like the two tasteless abominations above.
DeleteThat soccer mom was killed by her law enforcement husband..
ReplyDeleteIn all seriousness, Mike and Dog Gone, when you post pictures like those above, and when you defend them, it shows us that we gun owners are not among the number of people you want to protect from gun violence. Glib remarks about "someone found your proposal acceptable" belie such a lack of care about gun owners that we would be fools to not question whether or not you wish for things like this to happen. After all, it gives you more names to post, more pictures to photoshop, etc.
ReplyDeleteThe attitude you show by posting and defending pictures like that is why we don't trust you any further than we can toss you when it comes to your intentions to "just promote gun safety" or "just want reasonable regulation and licensing." It is because of this attitude on your part that we will not trust you with a registry of who owns what guns, and why we will not just roll over for your "Assault Weapon" bans, "High Capacity" magazine bans, etc.
No more "compromises." No more limits. No more infringements. You've done enough.