Thursday, April 11, 2013
Colion Noir Still Lying to Advance His Agenda
He actually says that we say "40% of gun purchases are conducted by private sales at gun shows." That's not true at all and he knows it. He's not only a liar, but he's so arrogant that he thinks his ability to talk fast and be slicker than the rest will work. And, I suppose in a sense he's right. Because he's preaching to the choir, for the most part, he's sure to receive wide-spread approval from his fellow gun-rights fanatics.
What we actually say is that 40% of gun sales are conducted privately and do not require background checks. It's one thing to question the provenance of the stat and claim it should be lower, but claiming that we say this 40% takes place ONLY at gun shows is mendacious.
And then, ironically indicting himself he says, "having an agenda in and of itself isn't evil, but lying to advance it ..." and "if your proposed measures were such common sense and blatantly effective you wouldn't have to lie and pander to our emotions"
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http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/jul/25/michael-bloomberg/mayor-michael-bloomberg-says-40-percent-guns-are-s/
ReplyDeleteThanks for that link proving my point that Colion is a shameless liar. He said AT GUN SHOWS.
DeleteDid we watch the same video?
Deleteorlin sellers
Mike, while factually you are correct that the 40% number of transfers, and not just sales at gun shows, Mr. Colion Noir also shows that he understands that in his video when he mentions that the 40% figure also includes gifts from family members or other people. I think he might be mistaken when he mentions prizes from contests because most of those require you to go through an FFL for the transfer.
ReplyDeleteKeep in mind though, who exactly coined the term "gun show loophole". I doubt it was the NRA that came up with that one. So, the gun control industry seems to use the term gun show loophole to refer to all private sales not requiring an NICS check. So it doesnt seem fair to ding the other side for using the same term in rebuttal.
In looking at the report you referenced that comes up with the "40%" figure, I also noticed that the survey also asked about defensive gun uses. And their findings seemed to parallel the findings of the Kleck study. Even after making changes for what they refered to sampling errors, they came up with over a million defensive gun uses per year. The gun control side frequently finds fault with the Kleck study, so shouldnt this study also be looked at skeptically?
Sure. The 40% figure is debatable. But the point of my post is that Colion mis-represented the gun-control argument.
DeleteYeah, he did say that wrong, but the breakdown of where they got that 40% number was accurate. Do you have any comments on that? And to Ssgmarkcr's point above, it is not like you guys have never mixed up gun shows sales and private sales before.
ReplyDeleteHell, just a couple weeks ago, Mike admitted to using inaccurate terminology such as gun show loophole and gun buy back since they were catchier ways to discuss matters.
DeleteBut that's not an unpardonable sin of lying and misdirection when they do it, it's just a way of saying something inaccurate to ring a bell in the public's head and motivate them.
However, when someone on our side slips up and uses similar terminology, or slips up and only talks about gun shows (which used to be all the controllers talked about until a year or two back), suddenly that guy is lying and it negates everything else that he said so that no counterarguments need be made.
Mike, your double standards and avoidance tactics are about the lamest thing I've ever seen--only trumped by DG and Laci's libel and run tactics.
There's no double standard at all. I'm suggesting that Mr. Colion did more than "slip up." When gun control folks who aren't all that familiar with guns say "fully-automatic" when they mean "semi-automatic," that is often a slip-up due to ignorance. But Colion is no dummy. He knows this argument through and through. His was a purposeful attempt to mis-represent his opponents' argument.
DeleteYo say that your side's slips are "often" mistakes born of ignorance. That implies that there are many times that they are deliberate misstatements, but you never attack them for that.
DeleteYou also claim to know whether this was purposeful misdirection from Colion as opposed to a slip-up. All I can say is that it must be amazing to be able to flawlessly see other people's motives!
As for double standards, I wasn't just talking about slip ups by your side; I was talking about all of the misleading terminology that has been come up with by people on your side who either knew better, or claimed expertise (McCarthy, DeGette, etc.).
MikeB said: He actually says that we say "40% of gun purchases are conducted by private sales at gun shows."
ReplyDeleteI agree, that was stretching the truth. But, your side does say: 80% of surveyed criminals got their guns from unregulated private transactions. Making it seem likes it's private sellers selling to criminals, when in fact it's 40% getting their guns through illegal means (theft, black market, drug dealer), 8.2% from illegal means (straw purchaser) and about 20% friends (other criminals?) and about 20% family, which wouldn't be constrained by any so called universal background checks.
Yeah, he misquoted your side, but your side misquotes data, too. The medicine isn't so good when you have to choke it down, is it?
Bill, "stretching the truth?" Is that what you call it? And, what if the other side does it too? What the hell kind of defense is that?
DeleteWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. Personally, I don't participate in spreading the lies and would prefer for there to be honest dialog, but the gun control side won't go for that because without torturing data gun controllers have no case for gun control.
DeleteThat's funny, Bill, I think it's exactly the opposite.
DeleteIf it's "racist" to point out Obama's lies (at least if white people do it--and why that wouldn't just make them half racist is left unexplained), what does that say about white people who accuse Mr. Noir of lying?
ReplyDeleteWay to side-step the issue, Kurt.
DeleteWay to side-step the issue, Kurt.
DeleteActually, herbivore, I believe I "side-step[ped]" a non-issue.
I don't see the "at gun shows" as anything but a case of sloppy misspeaking. Why do I see it that way? Because I don't see a motive for him to lie about it. The point is to make the case against the very obvious lie of "40% of gun sales proceed without a background check." Whether or not those sales occur at gun shows is irrelevant.
And the "40%" lie is a lie, as even the boot-licking, Obama-loving, forcible citizen disarmament-craving Washington Post has pointed out not once, making a good case (in an update) for the claim that a far more plausible range of figures would be 14-22%, but twice (and by the second time, the WaPo's fact checkers were clearly getting impatient with Obama's continued spouting of that lie, and his unwillingness to address challenges to it, prompting them to score the claim with "Three Pinocchios," the second most mendacious score possible).
Oh, and speaking of "side-step[ing]," I notice you didn't answer my question.
"Because I don't see a motive for him to lie about it."
DeleteYou really don't? A guy with your intelligence and imagination?
How about making the gun control folks who say that seem worse than they are? How about making us so obviously wrong that no one can deny it?
The real truth about the 40% is no one knows. Since private sales are unrecorded, it's a guessing game.
It may be high, but that's what's going around these days. And, even if the lower estimates you mentioned are closer to the truth, they're still too high. That's the real point.
I didn't respond to your stupid taunt about my being a racist because it was a stupid taunt. I never called people racists for calling Obama a liar. I called them racists for what I found to be inexplicable, over-the-top, Obama hatred, think of Ann Coulter, for example. But you knew that. You just wanted to break balls and sling silly taunts.
How about making the gun control folks who say that seem worse than they are?
DeleteAs if it were possible to make you and your fellow filth look any more vilely reprehensible than you already are.
You've wanted my attention for some time now and now you have it. In all fairness, you make some great points and I can respect that. It's rather clear that the statement was a slip-up, trying to vilify me for it was cute though. You are right, the 40% stat refers to private sales at Gun Shows and Online. However, lets not ignore the fact that when the figure is presented it's to bolster the argument for closing the alleged "Gun Show Loophole". Many anti-gunners who use the stat take advantage of the ambiguity and make it seem as if this all happens at gun shows. You can't deny that. Somewhere between me addressing the misleading use of the stat and quoting the stat In and of itself I misspoke. You can cherry pick my video all day long, but it does nothing to refute the fact that there is no "Gun Show Loophole". Further, the stat is misleading and not true. This was the point of the video. I will post an annotation clarifying the two points I was trying to make which does nothing to change the message. #TillWeMeetAgain
ReplyDeleteThanks for your comment, which was more an indictment of your opponents than an admission of your mistake. But the admission was there, I guess that's something. In fact that puts you above many of your fellows who have the attitude of never giving in to anything.
DeleteAs I said in other comments I find it hard to believe you misspoke, but if that's the truth I apologize for my strong reaction.
I await the retraction or clarification.
Presuming this comment is from the real Colion Noir, I'll point out that Mikeb tells us that when white guys have inexplicable hatred for a public black man, it has to be racism. Of course, that only applies to Barack Obama, it seems.
DeleteBy the way, you're always welcome at my weblog.