So the inventory records showed missing guns, but they were able to quickly account for them. Sounds like background checks must have been done and they found the guns through the 4473's, but something broke down in the process and those guns didn't get logged out of the inventory.
Could be something else, but it sounds like a harmless paperwork SNAFU that has destroyed this business and may send people to jail and lose them all voting rights for life.
Such a wonderful system where you can comply with the more important parts of the existing law--background checks, etc., but because some employee screwed up the inventory log you lose your livelihood, get fined, and go to prison.
Mike, Maybe instead of dismissing what I said by accusing me of having a persecution complex, you would care to explain why the system I described is a proper system, or pointing out where I got the description wrong.
Or you can copy your buddies Laci and DG and just scarper after flinging some poo.
Neither one of us knows why they were shut down. You presume the ATF is acting in bad faith. I don't. I think the reason you do that is because you're a paranoid, persecuted man who needs a gun to feel OK. You get defensive. The reason I presume the ATF has good reason to shut these guys down is because I believe many FFL dealers take shortcuts and bend some of the rules. Isn't that the way of all businesses? When they're thrust into the limelight and get looked at, it comes out.
Mikeb, here's something for you to ponder: Other than the ATF, name one government agency that you'd trust to operate without public (and not just Congressional) scrutiny and without having to justify their actions.
See, you come off as a typcial leftist, someone who wouldn't trust the government. Of course, consistency isn't your thing.
Wow, Mike! Doubling down on the accusations against me! Suddenly, challenging someone to use their words instead of their insults, (not because your feewings got hurt, but because you prefer rational debate) is getting defensive.
As for my presumption that the ATF is acting in bad faith, you got me wrong. If I was going to accuse them of bad faith, I'd do it on the basis of evidence and make it clear that I was accusing them of such. All I'm accusing them of is enforcing a deeply flawed system in which a paperwork error can lead to jail.
If there's bad faith in that system, it's in the members of congress and the prosecutors who exercise discretion. These two parties have been working together, partly based of bad faith and partly on laziness, to expand this type of easy-to-prosecute paperwork crime into other areas as well, but that's a discussion for another day.
Greg, I'm mistrustful of all government agencies. That doesn't mean I think they're unnecessary or that they're always wrong.
When the IRS finds someone guilty of tax evasion, I don't automatically think they framed the poor guy. Same with the ATF finding problems with a gun shop.
Where did we say that they framed the shop? We said that the system was flawed, that this paperwork violation could conceivably be an innocent mistake, but that it wouldn't matter due to how things are enforced.
An illustration of too much government interference in small business. Disband the ATF today.
ReplyDeleteSo the inventory records showed missing guns, but they were able to quickly account for them. Sounds like background checks must have been done and they found the guns through the 4473's, but something broke down in the process and those guns didn't get logged out of the inventory.
ReplyDeleteCould be something else, but it sounds like a harmless paperwork SNAFU that has destroyed this business and may send people to jail and lose them all voting rights for life.
Such a wonderful system where you can comply with the more important parts of the existing law--background checks, etc., but because some employee screwed up the inventory log you lose your livelihood, get fined, and go to prison.
Oh, yeah, the poor persecuted gun shop owners. In fact, all you gun owners are victims of the unjust system.
DeleteMikeb, I'm glad you're finally seeing sense.
DeleteMike, Maybe instead of dismissing what I said by accusing me of having a persecution complex, you would care to explain why the system I described is a proper system, or pointing out where I got the description wrong.
DeleteOr you can copy your buddies Laci and DG and just scarper after flinging some poo.
Neither one of us knows why they were shut down. You presume the ATF is acting in bad faith. I don't. I think the reason you do that is because you're a paranoid, persecuted man who needs a gun to feel OK. You get defensive. The reason I presume the ATF has good reason to shut these guys down is because I believe many FFL dealers take shortcuts and bend some of the rules. Isn't that the way of all businesses? When they're thrust into the limelight and get looked at, it comes out.
DeleteMikeb, here's something for you to ponder: Other than the ATF, name one government agency that you'd trust to operate without public (and not just Congressional) scrutiny and without having to justify their actions.
DeleteSee, you come off as a typcial leftist, someone who wouldn't trust the government. Of course, consistency isn't your thing.
Wow, Mike! Doubling down on the accusations against me! Suddenly, challenging someone to use their words instead of their insults, (not because your feewings got hurt, but because you prefer rational debate) is getting defensive.
DeleteAs for my presumption that the ATF is acting in bad faith, you got me wrong. If I was going to accuse them of bad faith, I'd do it on the basis of evidence and make it clear that I was accusing them of such. All I'm accusing them of is enforcing a deeply flawed system in which a paperwork error can lead to jail.
If there's bad faith in that system, it's in the members of congress and the prosecutors who exercise discretion. These two parties have been working together, partly based of bad faith and partly on laziness, to expand this type of easy-to-prosecute paperwork crime into other areas as well, but that's a discussion for another day.
Greg, I'm mistrustful of all government agencies. That doesn't mean I think they're unnecessary or that they're always wrong.
DeleteWhen the IRS finds someone guilty of tax evasion, I don't automatically think they framed the poor guy. Same with the ATF finding problems with a gun shop.
Where did we say that they framed the shop? We said that the system was flawed, that this paperwork violation could conceivably be an innocent mistake, but that it wouldn't matter due to how things are enforced.
Delete