The Wichita Eagle
The pro-gun crowd love to tell us how percentage-wise, these incidents are not all that frequent. But, so many of them are the "forgot the one in the chamber" kind. It makes you wonder how often that really happens when, by sheer luck, no one is hurt seriously enough to make the news.
It's my contention that many of the ones that do make the news, in other words, the cases in which some gets hurt or killed, are due to repeat offenders.
The solution: one strike you're out.
This would make the world a safer place.
What's your opinion? Please leave a comment.
A Colorado man accidentally shot by a friend with a .22 magnum Friday evening in Park City has died, police said.
Eloy Portillo-Meza was pronounced dead about 12:20 a.m. Saturday after he was rushed in critical condition to Wesley Medical Center with a single gunshot wound to his abdomen, Park City Police Chief Phil Bostian said. The 36-year-old Denver man was visiting the owner of the gun — a friend who lives at the home, in the 1600 block of East Gary, where the shooting occurred.
“The (gun) owner thought he had unloaded the gun and was in the process of putting it back together, and that’s when it went off,” Bostian said.
The Park City man was taken into custody after the shooting but was released following questioning by police, Bostian said. The department plans to present the case to Sedgwick County District Attorney Marc Bennett’s office next week, he said.
The gun owner suffered minor injuries to a hand when the weapon discharged and was treated at the scene, Bostian said; Portillo-Meza died at the hospital. Both men involved are around the same age, he said.
The pro-gun crowd love to tell us how percentage-wise, these incidents are not all that frequent. But, so many of them are the "forgot the one in the chamber" kind. It makes you wonder how often that really happens when, by sheer luck, no one is hurt seriously enough to make the news.
It's my contention that many of the ones that do make the news, in other words, the cases in which some gets hurt or killed, are due to repeat offenders.
The solution: one strike you're out.
This would make the world a safer place.
What's your opinion? Please leave a comment.
And you base that "repeat offender" speculation on nothing but pure speculation on your side.
ReplyDeleteMeanwhile, if you talk to people who have had an ND, or experienced someone else's, even one where nobody got hurt, they'll tell you that that one slip, whether theirs or someone else's, scared them enough that they become compulsive chamber checkers and make sure it doesn't happen again.
Your speculation is based on your bias and is a complete fabrication from whole cloth.
You're doing a bit of speculating yourself. You're assuming that the reaction you described is what happens to All or nearly all of them. I doubt that. Many who do this are drinking or using drugs, some are so stupid they can't learn if they want to, some truly don't give a fuck about anything. Gun owners come in all shapes and sizes, don't they?
DeleteBut in your typically biased world view, and based on your own limited experience with the few cases you know about, you think that applies to everyone.
It's a principle of sociology that there's more variation within a group than between groups. That being said, given the number of guns in this country (300,000,000+) and the number of gun owners (100,000,000 +/-), if we were as bad as you claim, we'd all be dead by now.
DeleteMy argument involves the experience people I know personally in conjunction with accounts of others from all over the country.
DeleteYou base your speculation on what?
As for the drinking and drug use while handling guns--that's another issue that is already covered under the law. Stop trying to change the parameters. You opened this talking about negligent discharges caused by forgetting that a round was in the chamber, not criminally reckless gun handling by intoxicated individuals who are not supposed to be handling guns in the first place.
Tennessean: "You base your speculation on what?"
DeleteLaci. He's had mutiple NDs.
Really, TS? I did not know that.
DeleteSounds like Laci may be afflicted with foolishness on Many levels.
T., so a hidden criminal who uses drugs or drinks too much and has a negligent discharge, doesn't count because he shouldn't have been handling a gun in the first place?
DeleteThis is where two issues overlap. I think we need another Venn Diagram.
Mike,
DeleteMy point was that you raised the issue of "forgot one in the chamber," not "was too intoxicated to figure out or care if the gun was loaded."
As for my comment about intoxicated individuals, the stories you publish here usually show that these individuals get charged with recklessness because they were breaking the law by being intoxicated and in possession of a weapon. Meanwhile, a determination is made whether to charge the non-intoxicated based on whether the incident is one of tortious negligence or criminal negligence.
Yep Tennessean, here is his account (I am not including the link because it has his real name).
DeleteLaci the Dog: Thursday, September 05, 2002 - 03:41 pm
Was Rep. Barr drunk when he had his accident? I wasn't drunk when the airgun went off.
I had cocked the airgun to shoot a rat, but couldn't find any pellets. Several days later, I was handling the airgun and touched the trigger causing the pop, which scared the piss out of me.
The blank incident happened when I had unloaded my PPK blank pistol. I had pulled the slide back several times with no cartridge ejecting. I had put the safety on and was dry firing the gun. All proper safeguards had been taken.
So, I had thought when it went off with a bang.
Quoting a shill like Gary Kleck won't get you anywhere with me. I think that 20 million people have actually had an encounter with an extraterristreal being using his methodology.
The fact is that a house with a gun is more likely to have a gun accident than a house where no guns are present.
Indisputable.
Additionally, as a criminal lawyer, I know that you are likely to have serious legal ramifications if you use deadly force without proper justification. Quite possibly you may face legal hassles even if you believe you were justified. A person who uses deadly force may also face civil penalties, whether that use was justified or not.
I hadn't seen that post, however there's a jewel in there that I have to point out. The PPK Incident--so he unloaded the magazine and worked the action several times. He then says he trusted the safety and was dry firing.
DeleteTwo points of failure here: If you're going to do dry firing practice, you make damn sure the gun is empty--you don't just cycle the chamber, you feel it and look into it to verify that it's empty. All proper safeguards were not taken--safety was half-assed, and apparently he didn't learn enough from the incident to recognize it.
The second thing I want to comment about is the engaged safety while dry firing. I'd appreciate someone with a Walther saying whether this is possible or not. Every firearm with a safety like the Walther's--including my Bersa which is more or less a knock-off--disengages the trigger from the firing mechanism when you turn on the safety, so I highly doubt that Laci had the safety on while practicing his trigger pull. It would make more sense if the safety was off since that is how dry fire practice is done with every pistol I've ever handled.
If he did fire this round with the safety engaged, his safety malfunctioned, and it would seem he had a defective gun. However, this reads more like a made up statement by someone trying to talk about how safe they were, and how unavoidable the accident was.
The Walther safety is supposed to engage a hammer block when in the safe position--and decock, if applicable--and the trigger shouldn't do anything, but I've heard of the mechanism failing.
DeleteMy lady shoots a Walther PK380 (though not a PPK). The safety has never failed on it.
DeleteA story like this is only accepted because the editor knows nothing about guns or doesn't care about facts. The owner was in the process of putting the gun back together? I've taken apart guns a lot to clean them or to replace parts. It's usually obvious if there's a round somewhere in the gun during that process. (Don't fly into a lecture--I always clear mine before starting.)
ReplyDeleteMikeb, this is why I say an investigation is necessary whenever an incident like this happens. Were there drugs involved? Was this accidentally on purpose? If yes to either of those, I have no objection to charging the gun owner.