Original by Oleg Volk, rework by Lizzie Borden from facebook:
Of course, the rework cites its sources for its claims as opposed to the propaganda version which makes a statement that works on the emotions of fear and shame.
Friday, December 20, 2013
Truth in advertising
I try to not post memes because they are too cliche. And, despite some unfounded criticism about me, they are also rather shallow. But, I am going to make an exception for this one since it takes a piece of propaganda, which works on the emotions to short circuit the intellect, and replaces the propaganda with facts.
Original by Oleg Volk, rework by Lizzie Borden from facebook:
Of course, the rework cites its sources for its claims as opposed to the propaganda version which makes a statement that works on the emotions of fear and shame.
Original by Oleg Volk, rework by Lizzie Borden from facebook:
Of course, the rework cites its sources for its claims as opposed to the propaganda version which makes a statement that works on the emotions of fear and shame.
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"Several academic papers have been published severely questioning Kellerman's methodology, selective capture of data, and refusal to provide raw data from his gun-risk studies so as to substantiate his methods and result validity. While Kellerman has backed away from his previous statement that people are “43 times more likely” to be murdered in their own home if they own and keep a gun in their home, he still proposes that the risk is 2.7 times higher."
ReplyDeletehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Kellermann
So even the author of the statistic you used doesn't agree with it anymore.
Since you don't know shit about epidemiology, how would you be able to comment? I do,and Kellerman's methods are fine. It's a hard area to do research in. But now that we have driven the NRA crap away from research, we are going to see much much more research, and people will realize that guns are not good for anyone. Of course, for your typical mentally ill gunsuck, that's not an issue.
DeleteYOu are a fucking turd liar, asshole. In that very article on wikipedia, it states "Centers for Disease Control and Prevention grants do not require the individual investigator to make data public until there are no more publications to be developed from them. After publishing additional analyses, Kellermann released the dataset to the Inter-university Consortium for Political and Social Research, the world’s largest archive for social science research [2]. ICPSR released the data for public access on May 30, 1997 [3]"
DeleteHe released the dataset, you fucking liar. And NO ONE has to release data until they have finished the analysis, but you are another fucking stupid moron, and don't know shit about science.
Nick, I'm sorry I included too much of the paragraph. My intent was to illustrate that Kellerman himself changed his claim from 43 times down to 2.7. This had nothing to do with the release of raw data.
DeleteFor some reason, the 43 times statistic won't go away even after the author of the study himself refutes it. And I found it particularly ironic considering Laci's contention that the pro gun side uses propaganda.
The next question would be, was Laci aware that Kellerman had adjusted his figure downward from the mythical 43 times down to 2.7?
Might I suggest you take a chill pill?
"Nick," what would you like to study? Of course, if an honest study gets done, you might not like the results.
DeleteIsn't the same point made with 2.7 times? Doesn't that still say that keeping a gun in the home is about as stupid a decision as one can make? Doesn't it still highlight the foolishness and fear of you gun owners.
DeleteLet's just say 8000x more likely- since it's all the same.
DeleteWhat needs study? There are a number of topics. 1) How much do the gun policies of this country cost us in ER care? 2) How many actual DGU cases are there (hint: Any figure from the NRA is a huge exaggeration)? 3) What is the actual danger in an inner city? A recent study in Chicago showed that if you were in one particular circle of friends, your chance of getting your butt shot were 5x or something higher than persons in the same area.
DeleteAnd as far as "not liking the result", this is common in science. I am just wrapping up a project in which my organization spent $3,000,000 on a research project to get a totally null result. We are not the NRA. We tell the truth, and do not lie.
No, let's just say the statement that you're 3 times more likely to kill a family member than an intruder makes you pretty fucking stupid. Either that or you're acting emotionally and not rationally.
DeleteIf you believe Kellermann's nonsense, so be it. You're probably not capable of handing a firearm, anyway. But for those of us who are capable can own and use guns without harm to ourselves.
DeleteDeath and injury stats, prove you wrong, as usual.
DeleteThere are some 100,000,000 gun owners in this country, probably more. Less than one tenth of one percent of us kill or injure anyone with our guns. So tell us, Anonymous, what statistics are those?
DeletePublic death and injury reports. They are public, look them up.
DeleteI just gave you the statistics on gun deaths and injuries as a percentage of total gun owners.
DeleteYOU gave with no backing statistics, just numbers you pulled out of your ass. Being the site criminal cowardly liar, I'm afraid your word is not good enough. Need proof. Get back when you decide to properly respond.
DeleteGreg, id doesn't matter how many gun owners there are compared to the bad incidents. There are too many bad incidents. And this can easily be corrected. The fact that you don't want to even try makes you part of the problem.
DeleteThe fact that I won't try silly proposals that wouldn't solve the problem makes me rational.
DeleteThe fact that you are a lying criminal coward, proves you are irrational.
DeleteGreg, you call safe storage laws silly proposals? These laws would have a major impact on the number of guns stolen each year. Why would you not get behind something like that?
DeleteSo we now add creative work to the list of rights that your side cares nothing about.
ReplyDeleteTo my knowledge, Lizzy Borden has been dead a long time and never used Facebook.
ReplyDeleteLove the way the criminal lying coward makes fun of death. He is kill happy and we know he doesn't care about gun shot deaths, especially children.
ReplyDeleteKellerman's highly respected research is perfectly fine with the epidemiology researchers. They know that he has shown that it is more dangerous to have a gun in the house than not. The exact amount of "how much more dangerous" is not important. In fact, since it is a bone of contention for those with little understanding, it's better to say "your chance of being killed by the gunsuck on the other side of the mattress is between 2x and 45x over persons who have a non-gunsuck partner"
ReplyDeleteThen by all means, you shouldn't have a gun in your house. But why do you care if I do?
DeleteBecause you are a hillbilly idiot who said just yesterday, that guns and alcohol are a good mix. Living next to you, is dangerous.
DeleteThis is why I insist on a URL to the comment in context. You just lied about what I said.
DeleteNO and Mike already quoted what you said. Next lie.
DeleteGreg, I can't believe you're going to dispute the Anonymous version of what you said. You really are dishonest.
DeleteThe reason we care about what you do in your house is because you not only drink alcohol, but you refuse to lock up your guns in a proper gun safe. We don't trust you to be responsible with your guns. And you're probably a lot better at it than most. So we've got a big problem.
You cannot show any comment of mine that says "guns and alcohol are a good mix." The two activities should be done separately. You lot keep lying about what I've said, and you compound that lie by repeating it without any proof that I've said what you claim.
DeleteThe proof is in your printed comment for all to read. What a lying criminal coward. And you wonder why everyone calls you a criminal lying coward. HA HA HA HA HA HA
DeleteGive the URL of the comment in question, or stop lying.
DeleteGive up your weasel excuses and own up to your idiotic statements that everyone read.
DeleteIs that your only comeback when you get caught in a lie, "give me a URL?"
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
You're claiming that I said something. I deny having said it. Now you have to prove what you claim. But since you can't do that, you keep lying about me.
DeleteNo I don't, because the idiotic criminal comment you made, is there for all to read.
DeletePlease keep using your weasel laughable URL excuse. It proves me correct every time you use it. Thanks.