Mikeb, you're such a hateful person. West is quoting great men who created a nation that believed in individual liberty. The fact that it took some time to work out the depth of what that means in no way invalidates what they did.
But it's so often the case that ungrateful descendants criticize their ancestors and waste away their inheritance, while failing to achieve anything as worthy.
Look at what E.N. has been saying. He agrees with the idea that an armed person is a citizen, while someone unarmed is a subject. He wants us to be subjects. West reminds us that we Americans are citizens. Good for him.
That's not hateful or ungrateful. I think you should take those founding fathers down off the pedestal. That's all. For a black man to revere them is sick.
Many of the northern Founders were against slavery--John Adams, for example. Jefferson was also opposed, despite his having slaves. More than that, the words that they wrote, the words on which this country is based, gave us the principle of equality for all. That's something to revere.
What do you believe? Your comments imply a belief that American blacks should dismiss our culture and laws and be militant and resentful. By contrast, I see a role for all in our way of life.
Greg, If I make the slightest contradiction in my posts you're all over it. Yet, you have no problem with Jefferson's having been a slave owner, while opposing slavery, and writing all that good shit about equality of all men. He had women in their place too, don't forget. Why are you so tolerant about all that?
Jefferson was complex. Some would call him flawed. But even so, he wrote words that laid the foundation for our freedoms, both the Declaration of Independence and the Virginia Constitution. He particpated in building the nation that made those freedoms possible. He also was a man of his time who took a large step toward the future. I can't demand that people of the past have the same understanding of individual rights, since it took centuries to work it out. I respect Jefferson and his fellows. Why do you hate him so much?
Then you've made the right choice by moving to another country. America was established according to their ideas, and we have no interest in abandoning them.
Hey,, what about that Italian racist, sexist, murderous dude, Chris Columbus. He liked to rape, pillage and send slaves back to Spain opening up the Atlantic slave routes. You wanna compare Jefferson and Washington to him and the pope? When the Italians come up with a black or woman pope or president, get back to me. orlin sellers
Mikeb, you're such a hateful person. West is quoting great men who created a nation that believed in individual liberty. The fact that it took some time to work out the depth of what that means in no way invalidates what they did.
ReplyDeleteBut it's so often the case that ungrateful descendants criticize their ancestors and waste away their inheritance, while failing to achieve anything as worthy.
Look at what E.N. has been saying. He agrees with the idea that an armed person is a citizen, while someone unarmed is a subject. He wants us to be subjects. West reminds us that we Americans are citizens. Good for him.
That's not hateful or ungrateful. I think you should take those founding fathers down off the pedestal. That's all. For a black man to revere them is sick.
DeleteMany of the northern Founders were against slavery--John Adams, for example. Jefferson was also opposed, despite his having slaves. More than that, the words that they wrote, the words on which this country is based, gave us the principle of equality for all. That's something to revere.
DeleteWhat do you believe? Your comments imply a belief that American blacks should dismiss our culture and laws and be militant and resentful. By contrast, I see a role for all in our way of life.
Greg, If I make the slightest contradiction in my posts you're all over it. Yet, you have no problem with Jefferson's having been a slave owner, while opposing slavery, and writing all that good shit about equality of all men. He had women in their place too, don't forget. Why are you so tolerant about all that?
DeleteJefferson was complex. Some would call him flawed. But even so, he wrote words that laid the foundation for our freedoms, both the Declaration of Independence and the Virginia Constitution. He particpated in building the nation that made those freedoms possible. He also was a man of his time who took a large step toward the future. I can't demand that people of the past have the same understanding of individual rights, since it took centuries to work it out. I respect Jefferson and his fellows. Why do you hate him so much?
DeleteI don't hate them, Greg. I just don't respect them like you do.
DeleteThen you've made the right choice by moving to another country. America was established according to their ideas, and we have no interest in abandoning them.
DeleteBut you've already abandoned slavery and denying women the vote. Those were the principles the country was founded upon too.
Delete"Black clown quoting the..."
ReplyDeleteThat's racist!
He's black. Clown in this context is synonymous with idiot. Nothing racist there.
DeleteHey,, what about that Italian racist, sexist, murderous dude, Chris Columbus. He liked to rape, pillage and send slaves back to Spain opening up the Atlantic slave routes.
ReplyDeleteYou wanna compare Jefferson and Washington to him and the pope?
When the Italians come up with a black or woman pope or president, get back to me.
orlin sellers
I made a post today about Columbus Day. You should approve.
Delete