You can always count on Facebook memes to be totally accurate. One of the people pictured is Canadian, one of those gun control nirvanas. No idea who the other guy is.
Show a picture of two white cops with the caption: "one of these officers is here to serve and protect the community. The other is a racist a-hole who thinks thinks that black lives don't matter and will gun down anyone of color who looks at him cross-eyed. How are we supposed to tell the difference?"
The diversion from the point by SS and TS doesn't prove the point wrong. How do we know a gun carrying guy is good, or bad? Do we wait until one starts shooting? Call the cops and let them figure out who is a good guy with a gu8n, or a bad guy with a gun.
Tad, there is one form or other of open carry in the majority of states, with some, like Florida heading in that direction mainly due to law enforcement not applying common sense. In regards to people who report open carry, the 911 operator's job is to get information from them to determine the potential threat. For example, most of the reports from witnesses state that the gunman was walking down the street with a handgun in one hand and a rifle in the other. Many jurisdictions would consider that brandishing and send an officer as opposed to carrying a holstered handgun or a slung longarm. Minnesota hasn't required permit holders to conceal during the entire time it's shall issue permit system has been in force and it hasn't been a problem.
NO, SS, it's the cops job to determine a threat, not a civilians, that's their job, that's their training. Why would you gun nuts reject the idea of being asked for your permit to carry when carrying in public? One must prove residency to vote. One must ID oneself when filing a tax form. One must ID oneself to get government services like SS and others. Heller (the right to carry) is new law and these issues still need to be determined through the courts. The idea that gun nuts cry a rights violation just because they are asked for their permit, and or ID, is ridiculous. Heller never stated that if one carries, you are protected from proving/showing you have followed the law and have a permit. A cop has the right and duty to question if you have followed the law.
"NO, SS, it's the cops job to determine a threat, not a civilians, that's their job, that's their training. "
Well Tad, that is exactly their job. 911 operators are trained to effectively collect information in order to send the best response to requests for assistance. They also are trained to be knowledgeable of local laws and what local policies are for what kind of response is warranted.
"Why would you gun nuts reject the idea of being asked for your permit to carry when carrying in public."
I don't know any permit holders who do object and I don't. For example, in my state, I'm required to show an officer my permit and photo ID if he asks for it. Other states work differently depending on their laws. There are different laws that effect those that govern permit-less open carry. Perhaps you're referring to them? And of course, officers are allowed to investigate using a Terry stop, which requires reasonable suspicion. Every so often you also run across those who object to sobriety checkpoints and such as being intrusive and a violation of privacy. And then of course, there was the infamous "stop and frisk" policy put into practice by now former Mayor Bloomberg which had some disparity issues.
"Heller (the right to carry) is new law and these issues still need to be determined through the courts. "
Heller was decided in 2008 by SCOTUS which means there aren't any more courts to run it through. Whether you think eight years is new or not is up to you. And it's had quite an effect, being used to require Illinois and DC to enact a permitted carry system which has resulted in some well publicized defensive gun uses recently. The DC permit system is still working its way through the local courts there.
Well, there are 100 gun owners for every law enforcement person in the country. You like to use stories you post as "proof" that gun owners do more good than bad, but you post stories of cops being irresponsible, racist, trigger happy, and murderers on your blog with quiet regularity. Clearly this ratio of gun owners to LEOs being bad is a lot smaller than 100:1.
You can always count on Facebook memes to be totally accurate. One of the people pictured is Canadian, one of those gun control nirvanas. No idea who the other guy is.
ReplyDeleteGood of you to pick it apart as a way of avoiding the very clear message.
DeleteShow a picture of two white cops with the caption: "one of these officers is here to serve and protect the community. The other is a racist a-hole who thinks thinks that black lives don't matter and will gun down anyone of color who looks at him cross-eyed. How are we supposed to tell the difference?"
ReplyDeleteThe diversion from the point by SS and TS doesn't prove the point wrong. How do we know a gun carrying guy is good, or bad? Do we wait until one starts shooting? Call the cops and let them figure out who is a good guy with a gu8n, or a bad guy with a gun.
ReplyDeleteWe ban open carry for civilians.
DeleteHow do you know the cops you call are going to be good or bad?
DeleteWe ban open carry for civilians.
DeleteUm, the nationwide trend seems to be headed in the exact opposite direction, you know.
Tad, there is one form or other of open carry in the majority of states, with some, like Florida heading in that direction mainly due to law enforcement not applying common sense.
DeleteIn regards to people who report open carry, the 911 operator's job is to get information from them to determine the potential threat. For example, most of the reports from witnesses state that the gunman was walking down the street with a handgun in one hand and a rifle in the other. Many jurisdictions would consider that brandishing and send an officer as opposed to carrying a holstered handgun or a slung longarm.
Minnesota hasn't required permit holders to conceal during the entire time it's shall issue permit system has been in force and it hasn't been a problem.
NO, SS, it's the cops job to determine a threat, not a civilians, that's their job, that's their training. Why would you gun nuts reject the idea of being asked for your permit to carry when carrying in public? One must prove residency to vote. One must ID oneself when filing a tax form. One must ID oneself to get government services like SS and others. Heller (the right to carry) is new law and these issues still need to be determined through the courts. The idea that gun nuts cry a rights violation just because they are asked for their permit, and or ID, is ridiculous. Heller never stated that if one carries, you are protected from proving/showing you have followed the law and have a permit. A cop has the right and duty to question if you have followed the law.
Delete"How do you know the cops you call are going to be good or bad?"
DeleteWe don't, but they get a hundred times more training and screening than civilians do. You can't compare the two but that doesn't stop you.
"NO, SS, it's the cops job to determine a threat, not a civilians, that's their job, that's their training. "
DeleteWell Tad, that is exactly their job. 911 operators are trained to effectively collect information in order to send the best response to requests for assistance. They also are trained to be knowledgeable of local laws and what local policies are for what kind of response is warranted.
"Why would you gun nuts reject the idea of being asked for your permit to carry when carrying in public."
I don't know any permit holders who do object and I don't. For example, in my state, I'm required to show an officer my permit and photo ID if he asks for it. Other states work differently depending on their laws.
There are different laws that effect those that govern permit-less open carry. Perhaps you're referring to them? And of course, officers are allowed to investigate using a Terry stop, which requires reasonable suspicion.
Every so often you also run across those who object to sobriety checkpoints and such as being intrusive and a violation of privacy. And then of course, there was the infamous "stop and frisk" policy put into practice by now former Mayor Bloomberg which had some disparity issues.
"Heller (the right to carry) is new law and these issues still need to be determined through the courts. "
Heller was decided in 2008 by SCOTUS which means there aren't any more courts to run it through. Whether you think eight years is new or not is up to you. And it's had quite an effect, being used to require Illinois and DC to enact a permitted carry system which has resulted in some well publicized defensive gun uses recently.
The DC permit system is still working its way through the local courts there.
Well, there are 100 gun owners for every law enforcement person in the country. You like to use stories you post as "proof" that gun owners do more good than bad, but you post stories of cops being irresponsible, racist, trigger happy, and murderers on your blog with quiet regularity. Clearly this ratio of gun owners to LEOs being bad is a lot smaller than 100:1.
Delete