The US right is as much of a terrorist threat as are Muslims

First off, there is nothing in the Constitution which allows for a "right" to rebellion.  If Anything, the Constitution is very clear that it prohibits waging war on the US (Article III, Section iii).

Unfortunately, I do not hear many people calling bullshit when people say it is their "right" to own a gun to fight the evil government.

But ponder this:

Let's not forget Timothy McVeigh:

Or Anders Breivik:

Maybe we need to worry about white guys as much as Muslims.

Why aren’t mass shootings called terrorism?

MSNBC recently asked this question.

Why aren't all mass shooters considered terrorists even if not "politically" motivated?  There is no common definition of terrorism.  On the other hand, Common definitions of terrorism refer to violent acts which are intended to create fear (terror); are perpetrated for a religious, political, or ideological goal; and deliberately target or disregard the safety of non-combatants (civilians).

Other than a crazy person has no identifiable religious, political, or ideological goal, they do have the other two parts of the definition: the use of violent acts which target or disregard the safety of civilians.  We can debate whether actual religiously, politically, or ideologically motivated terrorists are crazy as well.

The real issue here is the use of violence for some "goal", whether real, or something which is completely insane.  In fact, some people would say that anyone who feel the need to resort to violence is not completely with it.

The funny thing is that the pro-gun side appears to be pro-terrorist for some weird reason judging by the comments they made to MSNBC.  Additionally, the Constitution is pretty clear that the use of terror is unconstitutional (see Article I, Section 8, clause 15; Article III, Section iii, and Article IV, Section 4).  I would add that the Second Amendment does not explicitly contradict these clauses (but that is another post).

As Dennis v. United States, 341 U.S. 494 (1951) pointed out:

Whatever theoretical merit there may be to the argument that there is a “right” to rebellion against dictatorial governments is without force where the existing structure of the government provides for peaceful and orderly change.

The problem is that some people who claim to believe in the Constitution have absolutely no idea what it says or intends.  After all, why would a document that states as one of its purposes that it is to "ensure domestic tranquility" would allow for anarchy?

I would also add that if the people advocating overthrowing the government were left wing, they would be arrested in a heart beat.

On the other hand, I would be very wary of anyone who was openly advocating the overthrow of the United States and wasn't being regularly visited by the police.

Does the term agent provacateur mean anything to you?

Why shouldn't suspected terrorists be banned from purchasing guns, again?

I love the mental backflips the gun guys do in their opposition to putting suspected terrorists on the NICS background check prohibition list.  And then THIS happens.....

I wonder how often the authorities DON'T catch these guys.  It's incredibly -- astoundingly -- easy for would-be terrorists to amass weapons for terrorist plots in the U.S.  Semi-auto assault weapons?  .50-caliber rifles?  No problem.  Hell, as long as they purchase from private sellers, they don't even need to go through the trouble of background checks.  It's just cash-and-carry, baby!  America is a jihadist's jannah.

From the article:

Ulugbek Kodirov, a 22-year-old Uzbek man who moved to the United States planning to study medicine in New York, but ended up working in a suburban Alabama mall, was sentenced to more than 15 years in prison on Friday for plotting to kill President Obama on behalf of a jihadist group in Uzbekistan.

As The Associated Press reports, Mr. Kodirov’s lawyer, Lance Bell, blamed the Internet for radicalizing the young man, who moved to Alabama after giving up on a plan to get a medical degree at Columbia University because his English was not good enough. “I’m not calling him a victim,” Mr. Bell said, “but he’s a victim to a degree of social media.”

According to the signed confession in his plea agreement, which was posted online by The Birmingham News in February, the young man hatched his plot to shoot the president after being radicalized while watching jihadist videos online. He then communicated via YouTube with someone he believed to a member of the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan, which is on the State Department’s list of foreign terrorist organizations.
....
He was arrested exactly one year ago at a motel in Leeds, Ala., in possession of an automatic machine gun, a sniper rifle with a telescopic sight and four hand grenades provided to him by an undercover agent for the American government, posing as a jihadist sympathizer.

If he had just stuck to buying semi-auto handguns, rifles, or assault rifles, and as much ammo as he could afford, he wouldn't have actually been breaking the law.  Lucky for us, he wanted a machine gun and grenades.

Don't ya love how he blames the internet for his almost-terror-spree?  Haters, like terrorists and insurrectionist gun nuts, love to come together on social media.  They aren't mainstream enough to find enough like-minded pals in real life.

To all you gunloons who oppose mandatory background checks and the terrorist watch list....  aren't you proud you support "2nd Amendment remedies" for terrorists?

Survivalist Gun Nut Terrorizes Area

The way this guy carries firearms - which presumably an integral part of HIS weirdo notions of being 'free' and capable of defending himself - is why the gun lunatics carrying firearms terrorize the rest of us.  You want us to just 'trust' that you won't use them badly, that you won't act irrationally, that you won't have an accident, or that you have them secured properly. We DON'T trust you, and we have weekly, essentially daily, evidence to support that distrust is well-founded.

We are safer and MORE FREE, free of having to worry about what stupid or crazy or clumsy dumbass thing you idiots with guns will do next, when you DON'T carry around unnecessary firearms, either open or concealed carry.

You are all just more or less inept variations on this guy, with minor variations in the delusional fantasies you substitute for reality.  This guy just gets his hands dirtier, and has better practical skills than most of you do.

Hey - maybe he's just part of an elusive social club, like those Michigan militia fanatics?

.From the Huff Po and the AP :

Cabin Burglar Troy Knapp Considered Armed And Dangerous: Utah Cops

By BRIAN SKOLOFF and PAUL FOY   02/22/12 03:37 AM ET Associated Press 

Troy Knapp is accused of burglarizing dozens of homes in the southern Utah wilderness.

.
SALT LAKE CITY -- Troy James Knapp is a wanted man, a mountain recluse authorities say is responsible for more than two dozen cabin burglaries in the remote southern Utah wilderness. He's considered armed and dangerous, a ticking time bomb.
It took at least three years for authorities to identify him from fingerprints lifted from vacation homes near Zion National Park.
Now, they just have to catch him. Knapp remains somewhere in roughly 1,000 square miles of wilderness, a virtual ghost in the woods stocked with stolen gear, food and guns.
"This guy is probably about as true a survivalist as Davy Crockett," Supervisory Deputy U.S. Marshal Michael Wingert told The Associated Press.
Authorities have so far revealed little about the 44-year-old Knapp or how he ended up wandering the mountains of southern Utah. They identified him Tuesday and asked the public for help in finding him.
Knapp has family members in Moscow, Idaho, but phone messages left for them Tuesday evening were not returned.
Just last week, detectives in Iron County said investigators hadn't made a definite identification but were getting close. However, court records indicate charges were filed against Knapp in neighboring Kane County about three weeks ago as the key suspect in the serial burglaries.
According to the records filed Jan. 27, Knapp's fingerprints lifted from one cabin in 2009 were matched on Jan. 20 to records from a 2000 theft arrest in California. The records indicate only that he has been convicted previously on charges of assault with a dangerous weapon and burglaries.
Wingert said Knapp "dropped off everybody's radar in 2003 and nobody has heard from him since."
"He just dropped off the face of the earth," Wingert added, speculating that Knapp was "fed up with civilization."
He now faces multiple counts of burglary and a weapons charge.
In a statement Tuesday evening, the Iron County Sheriff's Office said tips from the public and forensic evidence linked Knapp to the crimes.
"This suspect is known to be armed and could be possibly dangerous if cornered," the statement read, adding that his identification was the result of "good old-fashioned investigative work, along with tips provided by the public."
"We believe Mr. Knapp is our guy," Wingert said.
Iron County Sheriff's Detective Jody Edwards said last week that investigators were still scouring for clues. He indicated authorities were getting close to solving the case after they got the first pictures of the suspect from a motion-triggered surveillance camera outside a cabin. The photos taken sometime in December showed a sandy-haired man in camouflage on snowshoes, a rifle slung over his shoulder.
However, Edwards would say only that "we're very close to making a positive ID on him."
"We just got to catch this guy," he said.
Edwards has been working the case since 2007. He didn't return a call seeking comment Tuesday evening.
Authorities say Knapp has eluded capture for more than five years, breaking into remote cabins in winter, living in luxury off hot food, alcohol and coffee before stealing provisions and vanishing into the woods with guns and supplies.
Investigators have chased dozens of leads, to no avail.
In recent weeks, it took detectives an entire day to reach a remote cabin after getting a report that lights had been seen on inside overnight. It turned out they were solar-powered lights on the porch, and the cabin was empty – another dead-end.
Their break came in January with the fingerprint match.
While there have been no violent confrontations, detectives have called him a time bomb. Over the years, he has left some cabins tidy and clean, while others he has practically destroyed, even defecating in a pan on the floor in one home.
Lately he has been leaving the cabins in disarray and riddled with bullets after defacing religious icons, and a recent note left behind in one cabin warned, "Get off my mountain."
In the Jan. 27 court filing, authorities said Knapp had left behind even more threatening notes aimed at law enforcement.
"Hey Sheriff ... Gonna put you in the ground!" read one note.
Cabin owners are panicked. Many said they were carrying their owns guns and had grown to wonder who might be sleeping in their beds during winter.
"He could stand in the trees and pop you off and no one would know who killed you," cabin owner Bruce Stucki said last week.
When alerted of the news Tuesday, a relieved Stucki simply said, "Wow."
"That's wonderful that they know him," he said. "Now they need to get him in custody."
From the beginning, the suspect's lore grew, leading to theories that he might have been two separate men on the FBI's Most Wanted List or possibly a castaway from the nearby compounds of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, the polygamous sect run by jailed leader Warren Jeffs.
Early on, investigators thought his unattended summer camps they came across during their search were left behind by "doomsday" believers preparing for some sort of apocalypse because of the remote locations and supplies like dozens of guns, radios, batteries, dehydrated food and camping gear.
They now have a name, but the man remains in the mist.
"He's scaring the daylights out of cabin owners. Now everyone's packing guns," said Jud Hendrickson, a 62-year-old mortgage adviser from nearby St. George who keeps a trailer in the area. "We feel like we're being subject to terrorism by this guy."

They Must Be a Bit Like the Militia "Social Club".....OR... We Can Call Them What They ARE, Domestic Terrorists

Anyone want to take bets that these two miserable excuses for human beings are big pro-gun guys as well?
Can't you just see them with one of those "I don't call 911" bumper stickers?  How very characteristic of certain consrvative Arizona elements.

 

J. Pat Carter  /  AP, file

Prosecutors argued during the trial that Dennis Mahon, seen here in 1997, and his brother belonged to a group called the White Aryan Resistance, an organization that encourages members to act as "lone wolves."

'Trailer park Mata Hari' case: White surpremacist twins' bomb trial wrapping up

61-year-old brothers are accused of sending package bomb to Arizona city's diversity director

By AMANDA LEE MYERS

updated 2/21/2012 8:35:49 AM ET 2012-02-21T13:35:49

PHOENIX — Attorneys are expected to give their final arguments Tuesday in the trial of two white supremacist brothers accused of bombing a city official in Arizona because he is black.

After attorneys give their closing statements, the jury will deliberate about whether to convict identical twin brothers Dennis and Daniel Mahon of Illinois.
The 61-year-old brothers are accused of sending a package bomb to Don Logan almost eight years ago to the day, on Feb. 26, 2004. Logan, 54, is black and was the diversity director for the Phoenix suburb of Scottsdale at the time.
Logan was hospitalized for three days after the bombing and needed four surgeries on his hand and arm. The bombing also injured a secretary.
Recordings The trial, which began Jan. 10, has been filled with drama as a female government informant dubbed by defense attorneys as a "trailer park Mata Hari" — a reference to the Dutch exotic dancer convicted of working as a spy for Germany during World War I — took the stand for several days, and Logan himself described the bombing in detail for the jury.
Jurors also have heard recordings of the Mahons using racial epithets for black and Hispanic people and saying violence is the only answer for white men.
The brothers have pleaded not guilty to one count each of conspiracy to damage buildings and property by means of explosive, malicious damage of building by means of explosive, and distribution of information related to explosives.

Maggie Keane  /  AP, file

Investigators chose government informer Rebecca Williams, who is a civilian, for her good looks and had her dress in revealing clothes and send the brothers racy photos to get them to open up to her.

Since the Mahons were arrested in June 2009 at their home in Davis Junction, Illinois, their attorneys have unsuccessfully tried to get some or all of the charges against them dropped for various reasons, including allegations that the informant and federal investigators engaged in "outrageous conduct" that amounted to entrapment and coercion.

Defense attorneys also have argued that a more likely suspect in the bombing would be someone who worked in the city of Scottsdale and knew about its intraoffice mail, since the package was found in the city library and routed to Logan — not sent in the mail.
theGrio: Principal with white supremacist ties fired
The Mahons were living in the Phoenix area at the time of the bombing but left days afterward.

Prosecutors argued during the trial that the brothers belonged to a group called the White Aryan Resistance, an organization that encourages members to act as "lone wolves" and commit violence against non-whites and the government to get their message across.
They played for jurors hundreds of hours of video and audio surveillance of the brothers interacting with the government informant, identified in court records as Rebecca Williams.
Racy photos Investigators chose the woman, who is a civilian, for her good looks and had her dress in revealing clothes and send the brothers racy photos to get them to open up to her.
Williams gave hours of testimony in the case, telling jurors that the brothers fell so hard for her, Dennis Mahon said he wanted to marry her and father her children.
Dennis Mahon's attorney told jurors that her client exaggerated to Williams to impress her and get her into bed, while Daniel Mahon's attorney painted her client as a hard-working man who had no time or desire to plot a bombing.
Prosecutors told jurors that although Williams flirted with the brothers, she never had sex with either of them.

Another Example of Domestic Terrorism

As we look at the reasons we advocate limiting firearms, the possibility of domestic terrorism, particularly in the context of Norway's Anders Breivik or our own Timothy McVeigh, we need to look at who has weapons and for what purpose.

But also take a look at the opinion of this man's father, who is willing to dismiss credible evidence against his son as being just  'political'.

In the larger context of firearm regulation, an in particular in view of the 40% of crimes where firearms were obtained from family and friends.....and the roughly 10% of straw purchases, how often do each of us know people who are NOT objective about their friends or family?  I'm talking about people NOT objective about the actions and intent of someone to whom they entrust a firearm.  I think we all know parents who are in serious denial about the conduct and intentions of their children, or women who are in denial about a romantic partner or spouse, or people who don't really admit the serious problems with the conduct of their friends or other relatives, who consistently make excuses for them.  Another example is the four old geezers in Georgia who were acquiring the materials to make Ricin, whose family members kept insisting they were harmless, despite the purchase of those materials and the acquisition of the directions to make the stuff.

Thinking about this larger topic, beyond terrorism, I was reminded of the 17 year old Minnesota teen who was known to be dangerously mentally ill, who had gotten away from adult supervision before, who had stolen vehicles before, and who was known to be obsessed with guns, and had been involved with police for firing them illegally, and assault, dating back to when he was 13.  He stole his mother's car, and then he took  a shotgun and other firearms from his grandfather's cabin - guns which he knew were kept unsecured, along with ammo - and killed two Iowa convenience store clerks, apparently partly to see what killing people felt like for real (as distinct from doing it in a game) and partly so they couldn't identify him afterwards.

His grandfather apparently didn't think he should have had to secure his firearms, despite the teen having been around them, and even allowed to use them.  Grandpa resented the idea that he should have done more to secure his weapons from his grandson or anyone else.

You know - because heaven forbid we ever INCONVENIENCE a firearm owner, in order to keep the rest of us safe. 

From the AP and MSNBC.com

Mass. man guilty of conspiring to help al-Qaida

Prosecutors say Tarek Mehanna and two friends were plotting to go to Yemen to receive terror training

By LAURA CRIMALDI

updated 12/20/2011 12:41:19 PM ET

BOSTON — A Massachusetts man was convicted Tuesday of conspiring to help al-Qaida and plotting to kill U.S. soldiers in Iraq.
Tarek Mehanna, 24, of Sudbury, faced four terror-related charges and three charges of lying to authorities. A federal jury found him guilty of all counts after deliberating for about 10 hours.
Prosecutors said Mehanna and two friends conspired to travel to Yemen so they could receive training at a terrorism camp and eventually go on to Iraq to fight and kill U.S. soldiers there.
When the men were unable to find such a training camp, Mehanna returned home and began to see himself as part of the al-Qaida "media wing," translating materials promoting violent jihad and distributing them over the Internet, prosecutors said.
Mehanna, who was born in the U.S. and raised in the Boston suburbs, will be sentenced April 12 and could be sent to prison for the rest of his life. His mother, Souad Mehanna, sobbed after the verdict was read and was consoled by her younger son, Tamer. Mehanna's lawyers also wept.
Mehanna's father, Ahmed, a professor at the Massachusetts College of Pharmacy and Health Sciences, said he was stunned by the verdict.
"I can't even think," he said. "It was political."
Mehanna attorney J.W. Carney Jr. said the defense team will appeal. He said he was upset with the verdict and what he called the extraordinary leeway prosecutors had to present evidence the defense considered prejudicial, including references to al-Qaida and the Sept. 11 attacks.
"The charges scare people. The charges scared us," Carney said. "The more that we looked at the evidence, the more we got to know our client, Tarek, the more we believed in his innocence."
U.S. Attorney Carmen Ortiz disputed that the prosecution's evidence was inflammatory.
"The heart of the case is really this: Did Mr. Mehanna conspire to support terrorists, conspire to kill in a foreign country and then did he lie to federal investigators?" she said. "Today a jury of his peers concluded that he did that."
During the trial, which started in October, Mehanna's attorneys portrayed him as an aspiring scholar of Islam who traveled to Yemen to look for religious schools, not to get terrorist training. They said his translation and distribution of controversial publications was free speech protected by the First Amendment.
Prosecutors focused on hundreds of online chats on Mehanna's computer in which they said he and his friends talked about their desire to participate in jihad, or holy war. Several of those friends were called by prosecutors to testify against Mehanna, including one man who said he, Mehanna and a third friend tried to get terrorism training in Yemen so they could fight American soldiers in Iraq.
Mehanna's lawyers told jurors that prosecutors were using scare tactics by portraying Mehanna as a would-be terrorist and were trying to punish him for his beliefs.
The defense built its case on the testimony of a half dozen terrorism experts. Mehanna did not testify.
His lawyers acknowledged that Mehanna expressed admiration for Osama bin Laden, but said he disagreed with bin Laden and other al-Qaida leaders about many things, including the use of suicide bombers and the killing of civilians.
Jurors began deliberating Friday. In his instructions, U.S. District Judge George O'Toole Jr. told them that in order to find Mehanna guilty of conspiracy to provide material support to al-Qaida, they must find that he worked "in coordination with or at the direction of" the terrorist organization. He said independent advocacy on behalf of the organization was not a violation of the law.

Terrorists Stockpiled Weapons for an Attack

THIS is an example of why it makes sense to me to limit how many weapons someone can buy at one time, or own over a period of time, without special registration or permits.

I'm sure these gun owners also felt they had a real need for all the firearms, and that they were moral and justified in how they planned to use them.

Dylan And Zakariya Boyd, Brothers In Alleged NC Terror Ring, Face Sentencing

First Posted: 12/20/11 09:14 AM ET Updated: 12/20/11 10:07 AM ET(ASSOCIATED PRESS) NEW BERN, N.C. -- Two brothers who pleaded guilty to a conspiracy to support terrorists will learn their sentences Tuesday in North Carolina for their roles in a home-grown terror cell federal prosecutors say plotted attacks under their father's leadership.

Twenty-five-year-old Dylan Boyd and 22-year-old Zakariya Boyd could be sentenced by U.S. District Judge Louise Flanagan to a maximum of 15 years in prison, but both cooperated with prosecutors and expect lesser sentences.
According to prosecutors, the brothers were part of a group of eight men who raised money, stockpiled weapons and trained for jihadist attacks against American military targets and others they considered enemies of Islam. All of the accused were either American-born or naturalized U.S. citizens, or legal permanent residents.
Defense attorneys blame the brothers' involvement on their overbearing father Daniel Boyd.

I take this apology to mean that Mom thinks he meant to do it...

I have some concerns about the FBI getting very close to the line if not going over it occasionally when it comes to entrapment; I suppose those same concerns could apply here to the NYPD.  But it doesn't appear that anyone was goading this guy into doing something he wouldn't otherwise do, at least not so far.  That also struck me about the four Georgia Militia members who were arrested for planning to kill massive numbers of people.

There does seem to be a chronic problem with the qualifications of these people to function well, including well enough to carry out what they appear to have attempted.  However, I don't see how being good at trying to kill large numbers of innocent people exonerates someone from having a go at doing so.

But it does bring up again the issue of competency, as well as sanity, for weapons ownership.  In the case of the militia old farts, should there be some provision to remove firearms from the elderly when they become demonstrably senile?  Possibly by assessment of a physician for their mental status?  What about those who have problems with mental deficiency impairing the ability to reason.

From MSNBC and the AP:

Mother of bomb plot suspect apologizes to NYers

Jefferson Siegel  /  AP

Jose Pimentel, 27, right, represented by attorney Joseph Zablocki, left, is arraigned at Manhattan criminal court, Sunday, Nov. 20, 2011, in New York. Pimentel, 27, an "al-Qaida sympathizer" accused of plotting to bomb police and post offices in New York City as well as U.S. troops returning home, was charged with criminal possession of explosive devices with the intent to use in a terrorist manner. (AP Photo/Jefferson Siegel, Pool)

By JENNIFER PELTZ, TOM HAYS

updated 11/21/2011 9:12:42 PM ET

NEW YORK — The mother of a "lone wolf" accused of plotting to attack police stations and post offices with homemade bombs apologized to New Yorkers on Monday, even as questions arose about why federal authorities — who typically handle terrorism cases — declined to get involved in what city officials called a serious threat.

The mother of Jose Pimentel spoke to reporters outside her upper Manhattan home the day after her son was arraigned in state court on terrorism-related charges.
"I didn't raise my son in that way," Carmen Sosa said. "I feel bad about this situation."
She also praised the New York Police Department, saying, "I think they handled it well."
Officials with the NYPD, which conducted the undercover investigation using a confidential informant and a bugged apartment, said the department had to move quickly because Pimentel was about to test a pipe bomb made out of match heads, nails and other ingredients bought at neighborhood hardware and discount stores.
Two law enforcement officials said Monday that the NYPD's Intelligence Division had sought to get the FBI involved at least twice as the investigation unfolded. Both times, the FBI concluded that Pimentel lacked the mental capacity to act on his own, they said.
The FBI thought Pimentel "didn't have the predisposition or the ability to do anything on his own," one of the officials said.

The officials were not authorized to speak about the case and spoke on condition of anonymity. The FBI's New York office and the U.S. attorney's office in Manhattan both declined to comment on Monday.

Pimentel's lawyer, Joseph Zablocki, said his client was never a true threat.
"If the goal here is to be stopping terror ... I'm not sure that this is where we should be spending our resources," he said.
Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly defended the handling of the case Monday, saying the NYPD kept federal authorities in the loop "all along" before circumstances forced investigators to take swift measures using state charges.
"No question in my mind that we had to take this case down," Kelly said. "There was an imminent threat."
Added Kelly: "This is a classic case of what we've been talking about — the lone wolf, an individual, self-radicalized. This is the needle in the haystack problem we face as a country and as a city."
Authorities described Pimentel as an unemployed U.S. citizen and "al-Qaida sympathizer" who was born in the Dominican Republic. He had lived most of his life in Manhattan, aside from about five years in the upstate city of Schenectady, where authorities say he had an arrested for credit card fraud.
His mother said he was raised Roman Catholic. But he converted to Islam in 2004 and went by the name Muhammad Yusuf, authorities said.
Using a tip from police in Albany, the NYPD had been watching Pimentel using a confidential informant for the past year. Investigators learned that he was energized and motivated to carry out his plan by the Sept. 30 killing of al-Qaida's U.S.-born cleric Anwar al-Awlaki, police said.
Pimentel was under constant surveillance as he shopped for the pipe bomb materials. He also was overheard talking about attacking police patrol cars and postal facilities, killing soldiers returning home from abroad and bombing a police station in Bayonne, N.J., authorizes said.
The arrest marked the second time this year that the police department took the unusual step of working with a state prosecutor to bring a terrorism case. In May, two men were indicted on charges they told an NYPD undercover detective about their desire to attack synagogues.
A grand jury declined to indict Ahmed Ferhani and Mohamed Mamdouh on the most serious charge initially brought against them — a high-level terror conspiracy count that carried the potential for life in prison without parole. They were, however, indicted on lesser state terrorism and hate crime charges, including one punishable by up to 32 years behind bars.

Attorneys for Ferhani said hate crime charges and a rarely used state terrorism law were misapplied to what they have called a case of police entrapment.
State prosecutors insist that there's ample evidence that Pimentel went well beyond merely talking about terrorism — and that he was acting on his own initiative.
"The people whom we're prosecuting have well crossed that line," Adam Kaufmann, head of the district attorney's investigative division, said Monday. "They've gone from sort of espousing an idea to creating a plan to act upon it."
At an arraignment where Pimentel was ordered held without bail, prosecutors said investigators have "countless hours" of audio and video in this case. And in a criminal complaint, an intelligence division detective alleges Pimentel told him after the arrest that he was about an hour away from finishing the bomb and felt Islamic law obligates all Muslims to wage war against Americans to avenge U.S. military action in their homelands.
A former federal prosecutor praised the police and state prosecutors for going through with the investigation and charges.
"A person who puts out conspiratorial information and then takes steps to build a bomb should not be walking the streets of New York," whatever his mental state or his interactions with an informant, said Michael Wildes, a former assistant U.S. attorney in Brooklyn who worked on terrorism-related cases. "Considering the facts that have been revealed to the public, the decision was done well, in this instance, to go ahead with this case and for the FBI not to be the lead agency."

Publicly, NYPD and federal officials claim they have a strong working relationship. But behind the scenes, there has been tension ever since the department mounted its own aggressive anti-terrorism effort, including undercover investigations targeting potential homegrown threats.
The effort is needed, NYPD officials say, because the city remains a prime terrorist target a decade after the Sept. 11 attack. Mayor Michael Bloomberg said there have been at least 14 foiled plots against the city, including the latest suspected scheme.
The most serious threats came from Pakistani immigrant Faisal Shahzad, who tried to detonate a car bomb in Times Square in May 2010 and is now serving a life sentence, and Najibullah Zazi, who targeted the subway system a year earlier. Zazi pleaded guilty to federal terrorism charges and is awaiting sentencing.
___
Associated Press writers Colleen Long and Jim Fitzgerald contributed to this report.

Update on the Georgia Militia Old-Farts Plot to Use Ricin in Mass Killings

It looks like the 'we're just big talking crazy old coots' defense didn't get their saggy old backsides out from behind bars.  I'm guessing that must mean there is some compelling physical evidence to support the taped evidence of their plans, which is what the original search warrant affidavits asserted (yes, I try to read as much of that stuff as I can find).  I don't think the turn of phrase 'digruntles' means what they think it means, as in purchasing the materials to make ricin...

From NPR:

Judge Refuses Bond For Men Accused In Militia Plot

by The Associated Press

text size A A A

November 16, 2011

A federal judge on Wednesday denied bond to the four Georgia militia men accused of plotting terror attacks against government employees, siding with prosecutors who feared the elderly men might lash out against federal officials because they have nothing to lose.
U.S. Magistrate Susan Cole's ruling echoed concerns from federal prosecutors who warned that releasing the men risked a deadly standoff with federal agents who are forced to bring them to court.
"I can only imagine the arrests of these defendants have only heightened their ill will against the government," Cole said after a third day of federal hearings. "I'm concerned there would be government officials and employees in harm's way."
Defense attorneys, who intend to appeal the judge's decision, said the men never intended to live up to the boastful chatter and that the charges accusing them of plotting to use guns, explosives and the biological toxin ricin against federal employees are overblown.
Frederick Thomas, 73, and Dan Roberts, 67, are accused of conspiring to obtain an explosive and possessing an unregistered silencer. Ray Adams, 55, and Samuel Crump, 68, are charged with conspiring and attempting to make ricin.
The four men were arrested in early November after at least seven months of surveillance by an undercover informant who infiltrated their meetings at a Waffle House, homes and car rides. The dozens of hours of recordings the informant made are the linchpin to the government's case against the four.
In the tapes, the four allegedly boasted of a list of government officials who needed to be "taken out;" talked about scattering ricin from a car speeding down a highway past major U.S. cities; and scouted tax offices. One man said, "We'd have to blow the whole building like Timothy McVeigh," a reference to the man executed for bombing a federal building in Oklahoma City in 1995, killing 168 people.
Defense attorneys said the conversations were taken out of context and that the men were actually planning to unite various militia groups across Georgia to create a legitimate "governor's army" that would be at the state's disposal.
"It's all a hypothetical," said Jeff Ertel, who represents Thomas, the suspected leader of the plot. "This is not a plan to take action now. This is a plan to take action if we are legitimized and if the government calls us into action."
But assistant U.S. Attorney Robert McBurney said the men took a series of concrete steps toward carrying out a violent plot.
He said the men cased two federal buildings in Atlanta, talked of targeting U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder, obtained an illegal silencer, amassed small arsenals of weapons, tried to purchase a briefcase-sized explosive from an undercover agent and attempted to make ricin from castor beans.
"We've moved beyond hypotheticals," he said.
McBurney warned that releasing the men risks giving them exactly what they want: A galvanizing standoff with federal agents whom they could portray as "jackbooted thugs taking action against elderly patriots."
The four played very different roles in the plot, according to court testimony. Thomas was described as the "thought leader" who helped host meetings and recruit new members. He is accused of scouting the two federal buildings with the informant and leading the effort, along with Roberts, to get an illegal silencer and buy explosives from an undercover agent.
Prosecutors said the men brought Crump and Adams into the mix after Roberts talked of obtaining a "silent killer" the toxin ricin, which can be lethal in small doses. Crump had memorized the recipe for the poison, prosecutors said, and Adams had the know-how to make it as a former government lab technician.
Defense attorneys, though, heaped scorn on the informant, who recorded the conversations while on bond on South Carolina charges that he sexually abused two girls and had child pornography. They called him an "instigator" and a "scoundrel" and questioned why he's free while their clients are facing stiff penalties.
And they claimed prosecutors were making too much of idle chatter from elderly men complaining at gatherings in local restaurants and at each other's homes.
"The government doesn't have a strong case. Surely there was talk about ricin, but it was ridiculous," said Dan Summer, who represents Crump. "It was like an old man in the stages of senility talking out of the side of his mouth."
Witnesses called over three days of hearings said the men were loyal to the government and often gave back to the community. Roberts, for instance, had an animal shelter at his home with 20 dogs and 30 cats. And Melissa Adams said her father spent many holidays playing Santa Claus for children.
"He may be intimidating at times, but on the inside he's just a teddy bear," she said of her dad, a big man with a busy beard. "He has his disgruntles just like the rest of the country, with the economy, but that's all they were small disgruntles."

On the same topic: From TPM Muckraker / Georgia:

Frederick Thomas

Feds: Senior Citizen Militia Members Targeted Holder, McKinney

Ryan J. Reilly | November 10, 2011, 6:03AM

Federal prosecutors said Wednesday that four elderly militia members charged in a plot against citizens and federal employees were targeting Attorney General Eric Holder and former Rep. Cynthia McKinney as potential assassination targets.
Holder and McKinney's names were included on a hit list compiled by 73-year-old Frederick Thomas, federal prosecutors said at a bond hearing. Authorities also said Thomas had stockpiled 52 guns and 30,000 rounds of ammunition in his Georgia home. All four suspects pleaded not guilty.
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Topics: Cynthia McKinney, Eric Holder, Frederick Thomas, Georgia, Militia Movement, Militia movement, Militias

Militia movement

Fringe Militia Member Accused In Ricin Plot Called Right-Wing Blogger's Novel 'Far From Fantasy'

Ryan J. Reilly | November 4, 2011, 6:00AM

One of the elderly 'fringe militia' members arrested on Tuesday for allegedly plotting a ricin attack against U.S. citizens and federal employees was a frequent commenter on a right-wing blog and thought a novel written by the blogger that allegedly inspired his plot was likely to come true.
Former Alabama militia member turned "Sipsey Street Irregulars" blogger Mike Vanderboegh said in a post that he never corresponded with 73-year-old Frederick Thomas, the man the feds considered the ringleader of the group. But he did say he believed "Ahab" was Thomas' screen name that he used to leave comments on the website.
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Topics: ATF, Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms and Explosives, Fast And Furious, Georgia, Mike Vanderboegh, Militia Movement, Militia movement, Militias

Georgia

Feds: Four Members Of Georgia 'Fringe Militia Group' Plotted Biological Attack On Citizens, Government Officials

Ryan J. Reilly | November 2, 2011, 6:30AM

Four Georgia men who belonged to a "fringe militia group" were arrested by FBI agents on Tuesday and charged with plotting an attack against U.S. citizens and federal employees using the biological toxin ricin.
Authorities say 73-year-old Frederick Thomas of Cleveland; 67-year-old Dan Roberts; 65-year-old Ray H. Adams; and 68-year-old Samuel J. Crump, all of Toccoa, Ga. began meeting in March 2011 as part of a covert group that called itself, well, the "covert group."
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Topics: ATF, FBI, Fast And Furious, Georgia, Justice Department, Militia Movement, Militia movement, Militias

Latest Domestic Terrorism

From the BBC World News:

Rezwan Ferdaus held over Pentagon and Capitol bomb plot

A 26-year-old US citizen has been arrested for allegedly plotting to fly explosive-packed, remote controlled planes into the Pentagon and the US Capitol in Washington.

Rezwan Ferdaus was also charged with attempting to supply materials to al-Qaeda and aid attacks on US soldiers.
The Northeastern University physics graduate is accused of planning to commit "jihad" since early 2010.
Mr Ferdaus was arrested in Boston after an undercover investigation by the FBI.
Attack supplies Announcing his arrest, the US Department of Justice described an elaborate operation over a period of months leading up to the arrest of Mr Ferdaus.
Authorities said he designed and supplied undercover operatives with a total of eight mobile phone detonators intended to be used by al-Qaeda operatives to set off bombs in the Middle East.

“The public was never in danger from the explosives”- Carmen Ortiz US attorney

During a June 2011 meeting, Mr Ferdaus was told that his first phone detonation device had killed three US soldiers and injured four or five others in Iraq. "That was exactly what I wanted," he reportedly told the undercover agents.

Also during 2011, Mr Ferdaus began speaking to the agents about his desire to organise an attack on the Pentagon, home of the US military, and the Capitol building in Washington DC, seat of the US Congress.
Posing as accomplices, they then supplied him with C-4 explosives, a remote-controlled plane and arms.
Mr Ferdaus was arrested on Wednesday immediately after putting the newly delivered weapons in a storage container, the FBI said.

The Pentagon was previously attacked in 2001 when the 9/11 hijackers flew a plane into the building

"The conduct alleged today shows that Mr Ferdaus had long planned to commit violent acts against our country, including attacks on the Pentagon and our nation's Capitol," US Attorney Carmen Ortiz said.
However, Ms Ortiz, US Attorney for Massachusetts, added: "The public was never in danger from the explosives," which were controlled by undercover FBI employees.
If convicted, Mr Ferdaus could face up to 15 years in jail for providing support and resources to a foreign terrorist organisation and up to 20 years in prison for attempting to destroy national defence premises.
Richard DesLauriers, Special Agent in Charge of the FBI's Boston Division, said law enforcement agencies in the area had worked together to "detect, deter, and prevent terrorism".
"We have an obligation to take action to protect the public whenever an individual expresses a desire to commit violence," he said.

Guns and Kiddie Porn Figure in Recent Gun-Related Arrest

Thank goodness the staff of the store where the purchases were made wised up, after the last Fort Hood shooter (alleged) did his shopping there too.  I usually find that the local media tends to provide the best coverage of these stories.

from the Austin Texas Statesman:



By Jeremy Schwartz, Tony Plohetski and Miguel Liscano Updated: 6:33 a.m. Friday, July 29, 2011
Published: 10:08 p.m. Thursday, July 28, 2011

KILLEEN — An AWOL soldier fleeing child pornography charges was planning a potentially deadly attack on Fort Hood soldiers before he was arrested, investigators and officials said Thursday.
Pfc. Naser Jason Abdo, who was most recently posted at Fort Campbell in Kentucky, was expected to face federal explosives charges after Killeen police found explosive materials and other weapons inside his room at a budget motel just blocks from Fort Hood, according to federal and local authorities.
Abdo planned to detonate bombs at a popular downtown Killeen restaurant and then shoot survivors, according to law enforcement documents first reported by ABC News and confirmed by a military official with knowledge of the investigation.
Abdo was arrested Wednesday on the pornography charge and for being AWOL after a tip from a suspicious clerk at the Guns Galore firearms shop. The clerk alerted police after Abdo on Tuesday bought six one-pound containers of smokeless gunpowder, three boxes of 12-gauge shotgun shells and a spare magazine for a semi-automatic handgun.
"His questions suggested he really didn't know what he was buying," said clerk Greg Ebert, a former police officer.
Guns Galore is the same store where Maj. Nidal Hasan purchased the gun, ammunition and laser sights that witnesses testified he used during the Nov. 5, 2009, shooting massacre at Fort Hood that left 13 dead.
After Abdo paid in cash and left in a taxi, Ebert said he called Killeen police and gave them a description of Abdo, who did not need to provide identification for the items he bought.
Officials said Abdo planned to use the items to kill military personnel. An article on "how to make a bomb in your kitchen" from the English-language al Qaeda magazine Inspire was among the items found in Abdo's motel room, a law enforcement official told The New York Times.
"I would classify it as a terror plot," Killeen Police Chief Dennis Baldwin said. "We would probably be here today giving you a different briefing if he had not been stopped."

These People Are What I Consider Truly Scary Gun Nuts

from 60 Minutes, May 15 2011