Did Gaston Glock Invent the Negligent Discharge?

Ammoland

“Those guns and just unsafe, you’ll never convince me otherwise.” so said a retired police officer during a recent conversation. The topic of conversation was, of course, the Austrian Wonder-Nine, the Plastic Fantastic, the hardest working pistol in show business today…the GLOCK 17.

To be completely honest, I find it a bit odd that in the year 2015 we are still having the Pro/Anti Glock discussions. GLOCK Gmbh. was founded in 1981 and the Model 17 pistol was their first offering in 1982. The Austrian military immediately saw the value of the gun and set the company in motion toward market dominance.

Not a New Design

Folks, Glock pistols have been around for over thirty years and yet some gun culture people talk about them as if they are some recent offering, somehow untested and wet behind the ears. Let’s face facts. If the Glock design was so flawed and faulty, why is it that every major handgun manufacturer in the world now has some type of polymer-framed, striker-fired pistol in their gun stable?

We can argue specifics and minute details until the cows come home, and I don’t even see them on the horizon yet, but with only slight modifications, most of the popular, internal striker-fired pistols function in a very similar manner. Don’t believe me? Take a look at the schematics.

The Creation of the ND

Let’s be intellectually honest, the negligent discharge did not begin with the invention of the Glock pistol. There have been negligent discharges since the ability to discharge a firearm came into being. Can we agree on that?  Can we agree that there have been ND’s since the invention of the firearm?

Yet, there are those malcontents that will acquiesce to the previous assertion but will point out what they feel is as an overabundance of negligent discharges where the Glock pistol was the hardware in question. This is particularly true when the subject of law enforcement using the Glock comes up. 

“More cops ND Glocks than any other handgun.” Said one man feeling he had put the cork on the anti-Glock argument.

Man shoots self in road-rage incident

You may be your own worst enemy!  Story here.

Anyway:

In many cases, state law allows Florida motorists to carry a loaded handguns in their vehicles which can contribute to the deadliness of the confrontations.

Sounds like piss poor policy choices to arm people especially given the "weapons effect"

Although, it gives me great solace that the facts have such an "anti-gun" bias.

But, I still keep wondering when the term "conservative" gained a meaning of something along the lines of "insane", "idiot", or "irrational" in US English???

If you people are "conservatives" who find "liberal" (the antonym of "conservative") to be an insult--then I am very proud to be a "liberal".

Kentucky state representative's gun accidentally fires in Capitol building

Ok, I know you will make idiots of yourselves by saying that my accident with a gun that doesn't fire projectiles (PPK blank gun) or a cocked, but otherwise unloaded, airpistol (Webley Tempest)--big differences there, but you probably shouldn't tell me I know nothing about guns if you can't spot them.

It seems that Representative Leslie Combs (D- Pikeville) was unloading her pistol according to safety procedure when it accidentally fired.

No human intervention or so the story goes.

"I thought it was totally clear," Combs said Wednesday. "I am a gun owner. It happens."  Combs added no one was in harms way.

I think there is a big difference between having an accident with a gun that is incapable of firing a projectile and one that does, but I guess that's just me.  In fact, the entire idea of using a blank gun for that type of thing is that you CAN screw up and no one will get hurt.

Unlike a gun that ACTUALLY has the ability to fire a projectile.

New York Hunter - 20-Years-Old - Shoots Himself by Accident

Local news reports

The State Police in Remsen investigated an accidental shooting.  20 year-old, Marc T. Donahue from Rome accidentally shot himself in the leg when hunting in a wooded area located off Furman Road in the town of Boonville.

Donahue was attempting to attach his .308 rifle to a rope in order to hoist it up to a tree stand.  The rope hung approximately six feet off the ground, and when Donahue reached up and started to attach the rifle to the rope, one round was discharged into his left femur. The rifle was loaded with four rounds and did not have the safety on at the time of the accident.  Donahue was transported by Mercy Flight to Upstate Medical treatment where he is in stable condition.

Are 20-year-olds allowed to handle guns unsupervised in New York State? This one proved to be incapable of safely doing so, don't you think? 

One-strike-you're-out is the answer for such an appalling lack of common sense.

What's your opinion?  Please leave a comment.

There's a serious difference between a blank firing pistol and a real one...

And while you're at it check this out!

A Senior Marine Corps Officer Got Fired For Negligently Firing A Gun Inside His Office

Business Insider

A Colonel serving as the commanding officer of Security Battalion at Marine Corps Base Quantico, Va. was relieved Friday after he allegedly fired his pistol accidentally inside of his office, Hope Hodge Seck of Marine Corps Times reports.

Citing “loss of confidence” stemming from the alleged shooting of his M9 pistol into his office floor, Maj. Gen. Juan Ayala relieved Col. Daren Margolin of command and he also faces military charges. The specific charge was not made public, but Article 134 is often used for “negligent discharges” — leading to possible penalties of jail time and/or loss of pay.

Negligent discharges are somewhat common in Iraq and Afghanistan — the military’s public affairs site mentioned 126 being reported in just 2007 alone — but back stateside, where troops are not armed all the time, it’s certainly out of the ordinary.

Margolin was in charge of Security Battalion, the unit made of fire and police personnel responsible for the protection of the base.

The Marine Corps knows how to respond to negligent handling of firearms.  They make no attempt to downplay it or white wash it. Negligence is just what it is, and it's inexcusable.

Gun-rights fanatics could learn something from this.

California Couple Arrested after Dropped Gun Wounding

Local news reports

Police arrested a husband and wife Sunday after a gun they had went off accidentally inside a Sam’s Club store, wounding the man in the forearm, officials said.

Robert Duncan, 48, and Helen Duncan were booked on suspicion of negligently discharging a firearm, Glendora police Sgt. Michael Henderson said. There city of residence was not immediately available.

The man and woman were passing a bag between them which contained the gun, Henderson said. They dropped the bag, causing the gun inside to fire.

Henderson said Robert Duncan was struck in the forearm by the bullet. No one else was injured.
Officers found the man and women at San Dimas Community Hospital. He was treated for his injury and released from the hospital the same day.

In addition to negligently discharging a gun, the husband was also expected to face a charge of illegal weapon possession, Henderson said.

That's how you get arrested for a negligent discharge.  You have to be in illegal possession of the gun. Otherwise they just call it an accident and let you go.

Are Negligent Discharges Really Rare?

NBC Right Now/KNDO/KNDU Tri-Cities, Yakima, WA |

Pro-gun fanatics love to downplay the number of negligent discharges. One of the ways they do this is to cite the numbers of deaths and dividing by the total number of gun owners in the country. This is misleading for several reasons.  The number of deaths due to negligence is only a fraction of those wounded, and that is only a tiny fraction of those gravely affected, which include those doing the shooting as well as family and friends.

Even after calculating all that, we still have only a small percentage of the true number of negligent uses of guns.  If we use the same standard they use for DGU calculations, it would be only 5%, the 95% being those in which no one was hurt and no record was made of the incident.

The obvious problem is when you ask gun owners if they've used their gun defensively you get a lot of volunteers.  Not so when you ask if they've had a negligent discharge. That's not to say gun owners are particularly dishonest, I believe that description is limited to the gun-rights advocates who have axes to grind, no, it's just human nature. People are reluctant to admit their mistakes.

What's your opinion?  Do you still think negligent discharges are so rare?

Please leave a comment.

Gun loons heal thyselves!

"A Texas mom has been charged after allegedly waiting hours to take her wounded son to the hospital following a shooting, instead spending time searching for information on the Internet."

Accidental Shooting in Utah

Local news reports

A man is in the hospital after he was shot accidentally by a friend who was cleaning out a handgun.

Police said the Riverton man was getting ready to clean his gun when he took a round out of the chamber, and the gun went off—shooting his 34-year-old friend.

The incident happened at around 2 p.m. on Saturday. Police said the man was taken to Intermountain Medical Center in critical condition, and he is expected to survive.

Is that even possible?  If he took a round out of the chamber, how could the gun be fired?

This guy's another double winner.  He should lose his gun rights for the negligent discharge AND for that cacameme explanation of how it happened.

Alabama Woman Shot Accidentally by her Husband - No Arrest

Local news reports

A woman was flown to the hospital with injuries after an accidental shooting on County Road 179 in DeKalb County.

Sheriff's deputies said a man was holstering his weapon around 11:30 p.m. Saturday when the gun went off and hit his wife in the side.

Deputies are saying the incident was an accident.

When it comes to shootings, there's no such thing as an accident. It's either on purpose or else it's negligence. If it's negligence then one or more of the 4 Rules of Gun Safety were violated. If that's the case then one strike you're out should apply.

The reason this is important is that many of these negligent gun owners are not making their first mistake ever.  And, thanks to the nonchalance with which these incidents are handled, they won't be their last.

What's your opinion?  Please leave a comment.

Alaska Soldier Commits Negligent Discharge and Suicide

Local news reports

THEY SAY A 20–YEAR OLD ARMY SOLDIER, IDENTIFIED AS CHRIS CARTER, HAD BEEN PLAYING WITH A FIREARM WHEN IT DISCHARGED, THE ROUND STRIKING 21–YEAR OLD AIR GUARDSMAN PHILLIP VILLA.

 THE SOURCE SAYS BOTH MEN MAY HAVE BEEN CONSUMING ALCOHOL WHEN THE INCIDENT OCCURRED.

HE SAYS CARTER, APPARENTLY DISTRAUGHT OVER THE SHOOTING, THEN TURNED THE GUN ON HIMSELF. CARTER DIED JUST  BEFORE 2–30 THIS MORNING.

These were trained gun owners, not stupid criminals that the pro-gun crowd like to denigrate. These were trained and lawful gun owners who were drunk and doing stupid things with a gun.

It's a tragedy that the gun-rights folks keep denying how commonplace the mis-use of guns is among legitimate gun owners.  It's hard to effect a remedy when they deny the existence of the problem.

What's your opinion?  Please leave a comment.

Accidental Shooting of Georgia 4-year-old - She's Critical - No Charges

Local news reports

A mother and her four young children were traveling in a minivan on Jonesboro Road. The woman tells police she heard a loud “pop” and turned around.

“Definitely, this is an awful tragedy,” says Clayton County Police Lieutenant Chris Windley.

"Her four-year old daughter was slumped over in her car seat with a gunshot wound.” 

The little girl was airlifted to Children’s Healthcare of Atlanta at Egleston with life-threatening injuries.

Investigators are now trying to figure out where the gun was in the car and who pulled the trigger. Above all, he said, this sad event is further proof that kids and guns can be a tragic combination.

What's your opinion? Is it possible that the negligent owner of a gun which ends up in the hands of kids can claim ignorance, shrug the shoulders, and all anyone does is call it a tragic accident?

Haven't we had enough "proof that kids and guns can be a tragic combination?" Aren't we sick of hearing that?

Anytime a kid get's ahold of a gun, an adult should be held responsible.

Please leave a comment.

Negligent Discharge of a Firearm and a False Police Report

Desert News reports

Dusty Moore, 30, called police Saturday claiming that a man had entered his corn stand and demanded money. Moore told police he was later shot while the alleged robber fled on foot.

Police determined after an investigation that Moore accidentally discharged his firearm, with the bullet hitting him in the lower back. Police also concluded that the corn stand had not been robbed.

Police said Moore told them he reported the robbery to save himself the embarrassment of shooting himself. Moore was treated for his injuries and released from the hospital.

Instead of an aggravated robbery, police now are investigating the case as an accidental discharge of a firearm. Moore also could be charged with making a false report to police.

The police don't like it when you lie to them. They get so upset at it that you could even be charged for "accidental discharge of a firearm," which is rarely done.

What's your opinion? Shouldn't "accidental discharge of a firearm" be charged in every negligent discharge?  Why does it take also filing a false police report to bring it out of the moth balls?

Please leave a comment.

Accidental Shooting Death of Tennessee Turkey Hunter - Shooter Goes to Jail

The Daily Herald reports

A Lewis County man will serve more than a year in prison for the 2011 accidental shooting death of another man, county officials said.

William Wesley Allen was found guilty of the criminally negligent homicide of 38-year-old Patrick Bennett after a two-day jury trial June 13-14, the Lewis County Herald reported. He pled guilty to an additional charge of hunting during a closed season.

Judy Bennett, the victim’s mother, told The Daily Herald her son died of a gunshot wound to the neck while turkey hunting in a wooded area on March 27, 2011.

Allen was hunting with a child in the area when the incident occurred. He told a jury he didn’t see Patrick Bennett through the trees, Judy Bennett said.

Allen was sentenced Wednesday to serve 18 months in a state prison for the charge of criminally negligent homicide. He was also ordered to serve 30 days in the county jail for hunting in closed season. The two sentences will be served concurrently, a county court official said.

It's interesting how many negligent shooting stories we've seen among turkey hunters.

1. Tennessee
2. Alabama
3. Oregon
4. North Carolina

And that's just earlier this year. What is it with turkey hunting? Does it attract a lower caliber gun owner than, say, deer hunting?  Excuse the pun?

What do you think about the sentencing of William Wesley Allen?  Was that too severe?  It was an accident, after all.

Please leave a comment.

Accidental Discharges Revisited!

Since our anonymous friend has such a thing for the time I had a "negligent discharge" with a Reck PK800, an 8mm blank firing gun. I thought I would humour him with this post about the Stansfield Report on Negligent Discharges from the RAMC Journal.

As far as I know, the Stansfield Report is the only one of its kind that investigated the incidence of unintentional firearm discharge and injury across the military, in this case across the UK Armed Forces. The report's conclusion was that Armed Forces doctors should be aware of the incidence of UK Military unintentional firearm injury and the context in which they occur in order to facilitate informed discussion with the chain of command about preventing (preferable) or responding to these injuries.

Of course, is the subject of negligent discharge addressed in a properly informed manner, which I would point out that anonymous's continual comments about the ND with a blank firing weapon demonstrate that they are not. While the Stansfield report pointed out that The UK Armed Forces unintentional discharge rate must be put into context, other country’s militaries do not actively place this sort of information in the public domain. Of course, there is a stigma to this topic since the name Negligent Discharge implies the assumption that a trained soldier has control of his weapon at all times. Thus, there can be no accident involved, but only negligence in handling.

The Stansfield report points out that Over the 5 year period that this study ran, there were 1158 Unintentional firearm discharges, forty three (4%) of which resulted in injury. Fifty five military personnel sustained unintentional firearm injuries during the review period, more than half of which were gunshot wounds and this included one fatality. The Regular Army suffers an average of 7.7 unintentional firearm injuries per 100 000 Regular Army person years

Nevermind that one of the ND mentioned in the Stansfield report was a REME armourer servicing a challengingly blocked rifle. I put it to you that a loaded weapon presents the possibility of an accidental discharge or negligent discharge no matter how well you are trained. As the Stansfield report points out, The comparatively low rate of UK gun ownership may be one explanation; nevertheless UK unintentional general injury fatalities are significantly lower than elsewhere.

I put it to you that there is probably a significant amount of negligent discharge in the US firearms owning population. I point to this post at TTAG: Self-Defense Tip: STFU:

TTAG has an entire series called Irresponsible Gun Owner of the Day, wherein we admonish readers to take responsibility for every bullet fired from their gun or guns every time. No matter what.

However, there is a time and a place for everything. The best time for a gun owner to take responsibility for their safety and the safety of those around them: before bad shit goes down. So that it doesn’t. But life is a messy business. People make mistakes. Shit happens. When it does you need to weigh your options before you own-up—especially to the cops.

The first problem with accepting the blame for an ND immediately post-facto (without consulting an attorney): you don’t know how the Man’s going to take it. For example, you might be ready to take the heat for loosing a round whilst pointing the gun in a safe direction. After all, no one was injured. Why not put your hands up?

Because an over-zealous DA could look at a “simple” ND and decide to prosecute you for failure to maintain control of your firearm (check your state’s laws). If he or she’s successful, you will lose your Second Amendment rights. Forever. If not, you’re still going to have a $100k-ish lawyer’s bill to pay.

To protect your gun rights, to defend your ability to defend yourself with a firearm, you have to assume that the police and the DA don’t give a shit about you or your family. They play politics and you, sir, are a pawn. In fact, it’s best to assume that they’re all out to get you.

I think that pretty much sums up the popular belief on negligent discharges.

Especially from our Anonymous friend.

Extra Credit:
How does the safety mechanism on a RECK PPK differ from that of the actual Walther |PPK?

I just figured out where all out commenters have gone...

From Ohh Shoot!:

Man unintentionally shoots and kills himself while showing relatives the gun he kept with his concealed carry permit

Guess he didn't realise that firearms were deadly weapons that result in death and/or serious bodily injury when used correctly.

Or in the hands of idiots.

Accidental Shooting of Tennessee 14-Year-old by her Brother - No Charges

The Commercial Appeal reports

A 14-year-old Collierville girl remains in serious condition today after she was accidentally shot Saturday by her 17-year-old-brother, Collierville police said today.

The shooting happened about 2:45 p.m. on Fabert Cove in Halle Plantation. The weapon was a 9 mm handgun, said Lt. Tom Beard, Collierville Police detective. An investigation is ongoing.

Of course there are no charges, it was just an accident. That covers the teen-age brother. And there was not even a mention of dear old dad.

What do you think? Please leave a comment.

Accidental Shooting of Arizona Man by Himself - No Charges Yet

The Daily Courier reports

A Prescott Valley man was in stable condition and in surgery at a Phoenix hospital Thursday afternoon after he accidentally shot himself in the leg at a home., said Prescott Valley Police Sgt. Brandon Bonney.

"A 29-year-old man was reportedly sitting on the couch with his gun when he inadvertently fired the weapon into his leg," Bonney said. "It's unknown if he was cleaning the gun or checking it when the incident happened."

There were young children at the home at the time of the incident, Bonney said, adding that it was unknown at this point if the man will be facing any charges.

One strike you're out, says I. What say you? Please leave a comment.

DEA Agent Lee Paige Loses Appeal

The Washington Post reports on the appeals case ruling about this famous video.

A federal agent who accidentally shot himself while lecturing children on gun safety lost his appeal Tuesday in a lawsuit over release of the video that subjected him to ridicule on the Internet and late-night talk shows.

Lee Paige sued his employer, the Drug Enforcement Administration, after video of the 2004 accident in Florida appeared in the news and went viral on the Internet. The video shows Paige shooting himself in the leg just as he displays his firearm and tells a gathering of about 50 youth and their parents, “I’m the only one in this room professional enough, that I know of, to carry this Glock 40.”

It certainly is an embarrassing video, there's no denying that. But most telling was what the judge said.

“The widespread circulation of the accidental discharge video demonstrates the need for every federal agency to safeguard video records with extreme diligence in this Internet age of iPhones and YouTube with their instantaneous and universal reach,” the judges wrote.

You see how that works? It's not that the DEA needs to train its people better, or that arrogant cowboy-type gun owners need to be disarmed, it's that they need to hide their negligence better. The judge gave voice to the normally unspoken agreement among gun-rights folks to conceal their dangerous and reckless behavior lest it interfere with the agenda.

The agenda, of course, is to minimize restrictions as much as possible, which in turn allows for more incidents like this.  The judge and Lee Paige himself called it an "accident," you know one of those things that can happen to anybody.  He actually said that.

The truth is "accidents" like this don't HAPPEN to people. PEOPLE do negligent things with guns.

Isn't it funny how the pro-gun guys will so often accuse us of personifying the gun, they accuse us of forgetting it's an inanimate object, but then they excuse their own negligence by calling it an accident.

What's your opinion? Please leave a comment.