arma virumque cano (et alia)
...many in Powell County said that if Ice was old enough to kill, he was old enough to die for it.
You wasn't there, you didn't live in that community - I did. You know only what you have been told or read. He had a IQ of 137 when the crime occurred, he made straight A', was a quiet young man.But that night, after breaking into the home, he layed in wait, slit the mother's throat (she survived)and then killed the 7 year old in the bathroom. He tried to blame others. In fact when he sat in another jail waiting for a retrial his name came up in another trial as being one who was advising others facing murder charges on how "to beat it." These are facts. Should children be given the death pealty, I believe the instance of juveniles killing others has increased since the Supreme Court ruling stopping the penalty for juveniles. A basic test is all you need - if you know its wrong and you do it, then face the punishment required. Look at each case individually. In Todd Ice's case, his mental declined began after years sitting in prison, not before.
Yeah, we should just let those that brutally kill a seven year old child go free. The killer was just a victim of society or something.Maybe you could share his responsibility elsewhere. Maybe the knifemaker is partially to blame. How about the store that sold the knife to the "lawful owner". Then of course, let's blame the lawful owner for not securing the knife enough.
Let's take the case of James Bulger, a two-year-old boy from Kirkby, Merseyside, England, who was abducted, tortured and murdered. Bulger's killers were two 10-year-old boys, Robert Thompson and Jon Venables.Thompson and Venables were found guilty of the murder of Bulger on 24 November 1993, making them the youngest convicted murderers in modern English history. They were sentenced to custody until they reached adulthood, initially until the age of 18, and were released on lifelong licence in June 2001. The case has prompted widespread debate on the issue of how to handle young offenders when they are sentenced or released from custody.This is especially true given that Venables was returned to prison for an unspecified violation of the terms of his licence of release. In July 2010, he pleaded guilty to charges of downloading and distributing child pornography, and was given a sentence of two years' imprisonment.For FWM's benefit, I copied that information from Wikipedia just cause.Anyway, we can take the legal rigamarole that surrounded the case. The boys were tried as adults, the case was appealed to the European Court of Human Rights, which ruled in 1999 that they had not received a fair trial by being tried in public in an adult court. The question is it just to try someone who doesn't truly appreciate the gravity of their actions?As far as I know, Thompson hasn't reoffended, which means that Venebles is the slime. His post release record shows him not to be a stellar citizen. On the other hand, he can be recommited to prison as has happened. Will Venebles be a recidivist? If so, then lock up him up.
"In the United States we sentence mentally ill children to death. It's a disgrace."So you are against parents aborting down syndrome and other abnormal pregnancies?
I lived in Powell Co. in the 80's. Todd Ice was a name you did not want to mention around those parts. Too bad he couldn't suffer a violent death. Good riddance!
Anonymous asked about my stand on abortion. I'm 100% for women's right to choose. About capital punishment for crime, I'm 100% opposed, no exceptions.
"For FWM's benefit, I copied that information from Wikipedia just cause."That's ok Laci. I am not a superlawyer and I don't play one on the internet so all of my legal posts and references come from Wikipedia, or at least a Google Search. :)
So killing mentally ill children is ok so long as a gun or the government is not involved? Women have the right to choose to kill their unborn children?
Anonymous, Was I unclear when I said, "I'm 100% for women's right to choose. About capital punishment for crime, I'm 100% opposed, no exceptions."Are you one of these fundamental religious characters who insists on talking about abortion on a gun blog, which ocassionally brings up capital punishment?Instead of asking questions that are more like statements, why don't you just tell us how you feel about abortion and capital punishment? Are they ever permissible? Are they never permissible? Please tell us your opinion.
Abortion should be legal only to save the life of the mother - i.e. self protection. Capital punishment should not be allowed ever.Police or individuals using deadly force to protect themselves should always be allowed - i.e. self protection.
Death row for children, I think we should be quicker to carry out the punishment. I think it would be beneficial to all if when you do the crime you get punished on time. Those who have sit on death row for 10 to 20 years is ridiculous!!! They do the crime and then I pay taxes to give them a warm bed, three meals a day, a roof over their head and a colored tv to watch while they, "Think of what they have done and how to change." That's why when we let them out most do the same thing and wind up right back in there with us keeping them up. As for Todd Ice, my husband was a family member of the child he brutally murdered and they should have "Hanged him in the public square the day he was found guilty." Those people were good to him and helped him and that's what they got for their trouble and we wonder why the world is the way it is!?!?!?!?!?!
Thanks for the comment, Anonymous (the last one). I'm sorry to learn of your connection to one of the victims through your husband. I'm afraid I don't agree that capital punishment would help, though. The sorry state we're in requires more than that.To the other Anonymous who said abortion only to save the mother's life and capital punishment never, thanks for your comment. If you're a female, I respect what you have to say but suggest you should speak only for yourself. If you're a man, I think you should stop telling women what they can or cannot do with their own lives. Do you really want to government doing that? Do you concede such power to the government in other matters? I doubt it.
I lived in Bowen, KY from 1975 through 1978. I still have many family members up there. We moved in the summer of 1978 down to Alabama where most of my moms relatives resided. I kinda knew Todd and his family some what. I knew that they were very poor people from what I can remember. In what month did he commit this horrible crime ? Does anyone know or remember. I know what my Aunt Gladys has told me in years past on some of the things. Just a sad situation altogether. My prayers have always been with the Knox family.
Thanks for that personal touch, Jackson4264.
What I would like to know is where is the other young man who was at one time implicated in the crime? Norvin Mayberry? It was said that he confessed IN DETAIL to his doctors at a psychiatric facility. Of course, when trial time rolled around and the death penalty was on the table, he recanted. Imagine that. He said he just wanted to get the doctors off his back. Hmm. Get someone off your back by admitting to a murder for which your friend has been arrested? Interesting line of reasoning. I'd like to know if he succeeded in getting anyone off his back in that manner.Now, my understanding from her testimony is that Mrs Knox identified Todd as the person who stabbed her, tied her to the bed and beat her until she became unconscious. The hunting knife he wielded was the knife used to cut her throat. However, another knife was used to murder the child. Does this not suggest the possibility that there MIGHT have been another assailant, wielding another knife, who participated in the attack and murder?At the time of trail, Mr. Mayberry and his mother were given lie detector tests during which they both denied his involvement, and both passed. Control questions normally used when polygraph tests are administered were not asked. Why? In addition, it was ruled by a higher court that the fact that he was given and passed a polygraph shouldn't have even been allowed into the court proceedings.I have read the higher court rulings of the NUMEROUS trial court errors. My point is this. We know that Todd was involved in this awful crime. He is dead now. Do we know beyond any doubt that he stabbed this child and not Mayberry? It sounds to me as if Todd's name came out early on and the police and prosecutor weren't interested in considering the involvement of a second accomplice. Is there a possibility that someone got away with murder here, because Powell County was so busy demonizing Todd Ice?It seems to me that this trial was allowed to be governed by emotion rather than fact and based on the law. Wasn't the Ice family hounded from their home and the county after this happened? And I have to wonder about the investigation, since surely there must have been a lot of blood from such a heinous crime. Did anyone check to see if Mr. Mayberry had bloody clothes or shoes after this happened? I realize we didn't have DNA at the time, but there still could have been a lot of physical evidence that would have told the tale. But, I forget, we had our one and only murderer, right? I'm not excusing his actions, I have nothing but sympathy for that family. I have a daughter myself. But it should be transparent by now, if there were any doubts before, that this man was seriously mentally ill, that he was subject to psychotic episodes. He didn't ride off into the sunset and live a happy life. He spent his life in institutions trying to control his illness. It seems to me that he has been in a form of prison all his life and now he's finally free.My concern, as the parent of that child, might not just be the fact that Mr. Ice is now dead. I would want to know where this Mayberry character is, and I'd want to know for a fact whether he had anything to do with my child's death.
Testimony at the second trial by KSP officers was that there was in fact a fire burning in the Ice family's "burn barrell" outside their mobile home. However, no one thought of examining the barrell's contents until it was too late to do so.
The entire Todd Ice incident is a very tragic and strange situation. Todd Ice's mother is the person who actually called the police and got them out to Todd Ice's trailer, supposedly because Todd Ice had told his mother a strange tale about being abducted and held hostage in the woods by a bearded man. When the police came out to investigate, and found Todd Ice indeed at home, they then went to the Knox home to check on the safety of the Knox family as a result of the "bearded man" story. That's how Mrs. Knox and her daughter were originally located.
That's the first I heard about Todd's mother being the person who called the police originally, although it makes sense. If my son came and told me some guy abducted him into the woods, I'd certainly call the cops. And it explains how suspicion came to rest upon Todd. In any case, I think the theory was that the bearded man story was a delusion he clung to because he couldn't accept the reality.
Tragic story indeed. Thanks for the personal input.
There is now a novel based on this sad and unfortunate event--it's called THE KILLING JAR. The authors look at the circumstances of how the murder could have been prevented by examining what interventions could have been done. I think it is important to read the "Author's Note" at the end to understand the perspective from which they are writing. The co-author was Todd's psychologist.Here's the link to the book:http://www.amazon.com/The-Killing-Jar-Based-Story/dp/0982697147/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1344631168&sr=8-2&keywords=killing+jar
todd ice should have been tortured just like he tortured the knox girl he didnt just kill her and go he cut her up in pieces while she was tied up mental or not it was pre meditated so no he was not insane my family knowed his family as well as the knox family he was a piece of shit he would come to the knox familys house and eat supper they treated him like any one would want to be treated he should of been tied up and treated the same way..i hope he burns in hell..
Does anyone know where Norvin is now?
That is an interesting question. This case was tragic all the way around. Mentally ill in this country are sent to prison everyday without treatment.
Anonymous Oct. 2012I can tell you are from that area due to your ignorance. Knowed? LOL
He is dead now.