That's his concluding paragraph to a wonderful article about who's really winning, one of our favorite subjects. Few gun-rights advocates will admit it, but the fact is during the first three years of Obama's term, a time in which the president proved to be anything but the terrible adversary to gun rights the NRA predicted, the pro-gun gains have been minimal to say the least. There are those who admit it.The NRA's dreams that District of Columbia v. Heller would result in a free-for-all of gun-toting teens and AK-47 arsenals has so far been soundly rejected. Instead, the NRA's litigation has led to a host of well-reasoned decisions from Republican-appointed judges upholding strong gun laws. While the NRA recently complained in an e-mail to its members that it is facing "a series of Second Amendment disasters," who knew they'd be in cases handpicked and funded by the NRA itself?
I offered the following on Baldr's blog:
The gun-rights folks are rightfully worried. if this is what happens with a cooperating (with them) President and a Supreme Court weighed towards their side, they're in big trouble when things change.
Sebastian responded like this:
Being the consummate debater that he is, Sebastian wasn't able to simple agree with my suggestion that his side has made so little progress in these years that the future looks bleak for them, no, he segued the discussion into another area, our calling them paranoid. He says that it is true they've made so little progress that the 2A is "one vote on the Supreme Court away from being erased from the Constitution and rendered meaningless," therefore they're justified in being paranoid.I don't make any suggestions otherwise. The Second Amendment is one vote on the Supreme Court away from being erased from the Constitution and rendered meaningless. They don't even have to overturn Heller and McDonald, just decide in future cases not to expand the right beyond the ability to have a gun in your home, even though state courts have tended to overwhelmingly reject that notion when interpreting their own RKBA provisions, and is out of line with the text, which states "keep and bear."
That's why despite your side's prattling about NRA paranoia in regards to Obama, gun owners are intent on getting him out. If he replaces any of the Heller five, the Second Amendment is finished. You're correct to suggest we're scared. I certainly am. But you can't suggest that, and then out of the other side of your mouth tell us we're nuts for opposing a second term for President Obama. If Kagan turns around and surprises us, I'll eat my words here, but I'm not holding my breath.
Now that's what I call slick debating.
What's your opinion? Is everyone beginning to come together in agreement that, despite all the Wayne-La-Pierre type blustering we often have to put up with, gun rights are gradually taking a back seat to sensible gun control laws?
Please leave a comment.
There is nothing that supports the contention that "the Second Amendment is one vote on the Supreme Court away from being erased from the Constitution and rendered meaningless."
ReplyDeleteNOTHING.
This entire argument boils down to the fact that the rest of the western world has not embraced the U.S. gun culture and that it has resulted in far lower rates of gun crime and gun violence, including firearms used in suicides.
The citizens of those countries are not less free by any metric; but rather they are arguably MORE free from gun violence. Not perfectly gun-violence free, but they have far far lower amounts of it occurring per capita.
AND they still have private gun ownership by people who enjoy shooting sports or who are collectors.
I don't see Sebastian as a particularly smooth debater at all. He is making statements which are not supported by either facts, or sound reasoning. It is an emotional, not a logical argument, and it works by hammering on false assumptions that generate fear.
THAT is not good debate, that is not good argument, that is not reason. It is PURE emotion, it is pure appeal to the amygdala not the rational parts of the brain.
There is no indication anywhere that this country is going to make a sudden or major change on the second amendment. Not EITHER way. It is likely that people are goingto become less tolerant of gun violence, be it violence by hard core criminals or violence by legal gun owners who snap and abuse their right to own a gun -- and the category of who is legal is far from what it should be.
What most needs to be changed is this superstition that we all need to be carrying firearms for our personal self-defense because we cannot rely on the law in a lawful society. That is crap. Our crime rates have been steadily going down for years. And those who have firearms for that purpose are more likely to be harmed than protected,and that is also true for their families.
Emotion versus fact and reason. THAT is what is at issue. The gun myths, not the gun facts.
Or maybe I should have defined it as the firearm fantasy versus fact.
ReplyDelete"Is everyone beginning to come together in agreement that, despite all the Wayne-La-Pierre type blustering we often have to put up with, gun irghts are gradually takingg a back seat to sensible gun control laws?"
ReplyDeleteIf it were sensible laws being upheld, there wouldn't be a problem.
The laws being upheld like the AWB, etc. restrict the law abiding using criminal misuse as an excuse.
Common sense would never put misuse ahead of proper use, therefore the accurate and factual definition of this law is irresponsible.
Gy Okhi sez:
ReplyDelete"If it were sensible laws being upheld, there wouldn't be a problem."
According to Heller-McDonald, these are reasonable laws. Guy, did you actually READ Heller-McDonald, or are you just being hopeful?
That's what you get when you play with legal precendent and history.
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