Any juror who claims not to have a reasonable doubt is a liar, and one who is willing to sentence a man to life in prison (which, in Zimmerman's case, is likely to be a death sentence) with her lie.
Juries are indeed notoriously hard to predict, but it's certainly reasonable to have some confidence that not all six of the jurors could be that monstrously evil.
The truth is you have no idea what's in the minds of the jurors. They've had a ring side seat to the show and if one or more of them claims to not have a reasonable doubt, that's their opinion. You're entitled to you own opinion, but to claim that anyone who differs is lying just shows you're biased prejudgment in the gun slingers favor.
It sounds like you're the liar for continuing to claim that you're impartial. You're a flaming Zimmerman fan boy like all the other gun-rights fanatics who what the right to shoot unarmed people if you get scared enough.
It's not about being scared. It's about someone making a credible threat of killing the person defending himself. Or perhaps you don't think that concrete is an effective weapon.
They've had a ring side seat to the show and if one or more of them claims to not have a reasonable doubt, that's their opinion.
Yeah, you're probably right--the prosecution probably did present that one piece of evidence that erases all reasonable doubt, but for some reason, the constant media coverage of the trial didn't cover it. Maybe it's a secret.
It sounds like you're the liar for continuing to claim that you're impartial.
When did I claim that? I claimed not to have any idea whether or not Mr. Zimmerman is guilty--and I still don't (well, perhaps yesterday's testimony by the former chief medical examiner, that Martin's wound was consistent with Zimmerman's account, has shifted my opinion to some degree). That means, of course, that I must be very partial to his acquittal, because if I "have no idea" about someone's guilt, I obviously have reasonable doubts about that guilt.
Being a rational and ethical person, I must of course be opposed to imprisoning a man who has not been proven guilty beyond any reasonable doubt.
Keep in mind that I still believe a prison sentence for Zimmerman would be tantamount to a de facto death sentence (a belief with with which you've expressed agreement that it "is a problem," although a problem you do not seem much inclined to address--kinda surprising for someone so strongly opposed to capital punishment, isn't it?). I don't share your zeal for the anti-capital punishment cause, but I do very strongly believe in an even heavier burden of proof on the prosecution when the penalty is death.
"but to claim that anyone who differs is lying just shows you're biased prejudgment" is sort of a risky position for you to take, given your propensity for labeling as liars those who disagree with you.
It will be interesting to see if the populace will accept the verdict peacefully or engage in violent behavior like some are advocating. http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2013/07/03/facebook-wont-remove-riot-trayvon-page
"The social media giant Facebook initially said it would not remove a page dubbed "RIOT for Trayvon" claiming it "doesn't violate our community standard on credible threat of violence." Later, the site apparently yanked the page but left another called "Kill Zimmerman" as is."
Hmmm, I usually don't way in on these things but feel I need to about this case. I am a gun rights supporter and have a license to carry a gun in Montana. I was trained to use and carry a gun by a professional police program. My children were trained about gun safety and weapons in their public elementary school in Montana. (That's what we do up here. 98% gun ownership in Montana) I am a Christian. I have liberal and conservative views but don't like to be labeled either way.
I have been here in Florida with my Mom during this trial and have watched it everyday live on Bay News 9. Quite grueling but fascinating. We are on closing arguments today.
My opinion? George Zimmerman is guilty of at least Manslaughter. He is an aggressive want-to-be-cop. He DID profile Martin. He DID go looking for trouble with a loaded weapon. He HAS lied throughout his interviews and police testimony. He was very knowledgeable about the "stand your ground" law in Florida. It was 7pm in the evening on a Sunday for crying out loud.
Zimmerman DID actively follow Martin and never identified himself as Neighborhood Watch or that he was carrying a gun. (His own testimony) ANYBODY that has been professionally trained on a weapon (which Zimmerman was) knows that they always have to identify themselves and that they are carrying a deadly weapon.
ANYBODY that has been trained has been told you don't carry your gun unless your willing to use it and kill with it. That is why I don't carry a gun outside my house or property unless for hunting, clubs etc... I never want to be in the position that George Zimmerman actively went looking for and put himself in.
Oh and BTW I'm a woman and not that strong, but if I took someone's head in my hands and violently started smashing it into the cement like the Defense demonstrated with their dummy, I guarantee you that person would be either unconscious after the first few times or that their head would be severely messed up. Use your common sense people. His injuries just look like it was scraped from rolling around on the cement during the fight. I have had worse injuries from banging my head on my kitchen cupboard. Why was there no blood on Martins Hands if he was covering Zimmerman's mouth and bleeding nose like he claimed?
Finally, Zimmerman showed no remorse for killing Martin who by the way had only turned 17 two weeks before his death. In his TV interview with Hannity when asked if he had any regrets for what happened he said no. And to add further insult said that it was "Gods Will." Only crazy (sociopath) and hate filled people do not feel remorse for taking a human life no matter what the circumstances.
Thanks. I agree with your analysis of the case and figure yours is a fairly representative opinion among even gun owners. Only the fanatics and blind Zimmerman supporters differ.
Do you think a guilty of manslauter verdict is in the offing? I agree he's guilty but I think he'll walk.
Exactly the point that a lot of us have been making all along: There's enough reasonable doubt.
ReplyDeleteAny juror who claims not to have a reasonable doubt is a liar, and one who is willing to sentence a man to life in prison (which, in Zimmerman's case, is likely to be a death sentence) with her lie.
ReplyDeleteJuries are indeed notoriously hard to predict, but it's certainly reasonable to have some confidence that not all six of the jurors could be that monstrously evil.
The truth is you have no idea what's in the minds of the jurors. They've had a ring side seat to the show and if one or more of them claims to not have a reasonable doubt, that's their opinion. You're entitled to you own opinion, but to claim that anyone who differs is lying just shows you're biased prejudgment in the gun slingers favor.
DeleteIt sounds like you're the liar for continuing to claim that you're impartial. You're a flaming Zimmerman fan boy like all the other gun-rights fanatics who what the right to shoot unarmed people if you get scared enough.
It's not about being scared. It's about someone making a credible threat of killing the person defending himself. Or perhaps you don't think that concrete is an effective weapon.
DeleteThey've had a ring side seat to the show and if one or more of them claims to not have a reasonable doubt, that's their opinion.
DeleteYeah, you're probably right--the prosecution probably did present that one piece of evidence that erases all reasonable doubt, but for some reason, the constant media coverage of the trial didn't cover it. Maybe it's a secret.
It sounds like you're the liar for continuing to claim that you're impartial.
When did I claim that? I claimed not to have any idea whether or not Mr. Zimmerman is guilty--and I still don't (well, perhaps yesterday's testimony by the former chief medical examiner, that Martin's wound was consistent with Zimmerman's account, has shifted my opinion to some degree). That means, of course, that I must be very partial to his acquittal, because if I "have no idea" about someone's guilt, I obviously have reasonable doubts about that guilt.
Being a rational and ethical person, I must of course be opposed to imprisoning a man who has not been proven guilty beyond any reasonable doubt.
Keep in mind that I still believe a prison sentence for Zimmerman would be tantamount to a de facto death sentence (a belief with with which you've expressed agreement that it "is a problem," although a problem you do not seem much inclined to address--kinda surprising for someone so strongly opposed to capital punishment, isn't it?). I don't share your zeal for the anti-capital punishment cause, but I do very strongly believe in an even heavier burden of proof on the prosecution when the penalty is death.
"but to claim that anyone who differs is lying just shows you're biased prejudgment" is sort of a risky position for you to take, given your propensity for labeling as liars those who disagree with you.
DeleteIt will be interesting to see if the populace will accept the verdict peacefully or engage in violent behavior like some are advocating.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2013/07/03/facebook-wont-remove-riot-trayvon-page
"The social media giant Facebook initially said it would not remove a page dubbed "RIOT for Trayvon" claiming it "doesn't violate our community standard on credible threat of violence." Later, the site apparently yanked the page but left another called "Kill Zimmerman" as is."
Hmmm, I usually don't way in on these things but feel I need to about this case. I am a gun rights supporter and have a license to carry a gun in Montana. I was trained to use and carry a gun by a professional police program. My children were trained about gun safety and weapons in their public elementary school in Montana. (That's what we do up here. 98% gun ownership in Montana) I am a Christian. I have liberal and conservative views but don't like to be labeled either way.
ReplyDeleteI have been here in Florida with my Mom during this trial and have watched it everyday live on Bay News 9. Quite grueling but fascinating. We are on closing arguments today.
My opinion? George Zimmerman is guilty of at least Manslaughter. He is an aggressive want-to-be-cop. He DID profile Martin. He DID go looking for trouble with a loaded weapon. He HAS lied throughout his interviews and police testimony. He was very knowledgeable about the "stand your ground" law in Florida. It was 7pm in the evening on a Sunday for crying out loud.
Zimmerman DID actively follow Martin and never identified himself as Neighborhood Watch or that he was carrying a gun. (His own testimony) ANYBODY that has been professionally trained on a weapon (which Zimmerman was) knows that they always have to identify themselves and that they are carrying a deadly weapon.
ANYBODY that has been trained has been told you don't carry your gun unless your willing to use it and kill with it. That is why I don't carry a gun outside my house or property unless for hunting, clubs etc... I never want to be in the position that George Zimmerman actively went looking for and put himself in.
Oh and BTW I'm a woman and not that strong, but if I took someone's head in my hands and violently started smashing it into the cement like the Defense demonstrated with their dummy, I guarantee you that person would be either unconscious after the first few times or that their head would be severely messed up. Use your common sense people. His injuries just look like it was scraped from rolling around on the cement during the fight. I have had worse injuries from banging my head on my kitchen cupboard. Why was there no blood on Martins Hands if he was covering Zimmerman's mouth and bleeding nose like he claimed?
Finally, Zimmerman showed no remorse for killing Martin who by the way had only turned 17 two weeks before his death. In his TV interview with Hannity when asked if he had any regrets for what happened he said no. And to add further insult said that it was "Gods Will." Only crazy (sociopath) and hate filled people do not feel remorse for taking a human life no matter what the circumstances.
Thanks. I agree with your analysis of the case and figure yours is a fairly representative opinion among even gun owners. Only the fanatics and blind Zimmerman supporters differ.
DeleteDo you think a guilty of manslauter verdict is in the offing? I agree he's guilty but I think he'll walk.