arma virumque cano (et alia)
"As Jones turned the door knob to the closet, St. Clair fired through the door, striking Jones in the upper torso. He ran out of the home, was captured and treated for a minor wound. Jones, 33, was later convicted of first-degree burglary and sentenced to 30 years in prison with the last five years suspended."http://durantdemocrat.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?avis=PE&date=20130912&category=news&lopenr=309129976&Ref=AR"A burglar caught by a naked homeowner is spending 60-days in jail. Clinton Keller will serve his sentence at the Purgatory Correctional Facility. In March, homeowner Eric Martin caught Keller roaming his home. He held Keller at gunpoint until police arrived."http://midutahradio.com/stories/20109-naked-gun-burglar-sentenced Talk about your wide range of sentences. Wonder how that worked out...
Two excellent outcomes I'd say. No one killed in either instance and no crime victims injured.
We talked about the 12-year-old left home alone with access to a gun and then shooting through the door. Only the most extreme pro-gun guys said this was ok.
Let's see: The child was uninjured, while the home invader got shot and later arrested. Only someone who sympathizes with criminals could say that's not o.k.
. . . and then shooting through the door.Apparently, the young woman took to heart the advice of no less an authority on armed self-defense than the the President of Vice, Joe Biden: . . . just fire the shotgun through the door.Granted, she used a handgun, rather than a shotgun, but one must improvise with what one has on hand, and who are we to argue with a positive outcome?As the axiom goes, "Guns are bad news for home invaders (and muggers, and rapists, and tyrants, etc)."
"We talked about the 12-year-old left home alone with access to a gun and then shooting through the door. Only the most extreme pro-gun guys said this was ok." I went back and looked, and you have a valid point. I have often commented here that kids being kids, you cant always count on them making good decisions. I was guilty of thinking on a more tactical level in that she handled herself well in a very stressful situation. I was also impressed by the 911 operator. I wish we could have heard the entire exchange, though I'm pretty sure that at no time did she tell her "we don't need you to do that".
The fact that in this case it all ended well does not mean it's a good idea to leave 12-year-olds alone at home with access to guns and it certainly does not mean it's a good idea to shoot through a door at what you think is a threat.
This does show that your "one size fits all" solutions aren't right, Mikeb.
Nonsense. No gun access for unsupervised 12-year olds is the rule. No shooting through a door at what you think is a threat is another rule. Do you dispute these?
Whose "rules" are those? Not the Vice President's (for at least one of the "rules"), obviously.My rule is that 12-year-olds not get raped and/or murdered, and I'm always pleased to see my rule complied with.
Given the incident here, yes, I dispute your demands.
Let's enjoy Mikeb's shrieking rage over this ;-).
This incident was a rare anomaly. Are you really condoning shooting through a door as a general rule? Do you really believe unsupervised 12-year-olds should be armed? C'mon, get honest for a fucking second.
Mike, shooting through the door in this situation and saying it was good doesn't suggest that it is a good general practice. There was very little chance that an innocent would be injured. She was on the phone with both her mother and 911. That eliminates the possibility of the person breaking in being a family member or law enforcement. Who else do you think could have broken in to a house and expected a good outcome?
Mikeb goes for the categorical imperative again. But life is more complex than that.
Yes, and you're using a freak oddity to justify poor gun management.
If I were to criticize anything here, I would suggest mildly in both cases that it might be best not to go on national television showing precisely where you keep your guns.No one's business but your own.
But Kurt, if they didn't, Mikeb wouldn't be able to comment, since he wouldn't know how they store their guns. It's the gun control position that we all must know where every gun is kept.
But Kurt, if they didn't, Mikeb wouldn't be able to comment, since he wouldn't know how they store their guns.I dunno--Mikeb seems quite willing to comment in quite some detail, even without any of the information that would qualify him to comment on the issue.
Mike B your nuts."Yes, and you're using a freak oddity to justify poor gun management." So would it have been a freak oddity if he had busted in and raped her?Probably a logical outcome then maybe kill her after. She had great gun management and beat the odds.
So, are you saying based on this case, we should arm all 12-year-olds and encourage people to shoot through doors at supposed threats? Or do you admit that those practices are nor advisable?
I just now watched the whole thing. I had assumed she shot through the front door, which I would have found a bit questionable. But no, she shot through the closet door, meaning, basically, that there was exactly zero chance of her hitting anyone who didn't need to be shot (as opposed to the approximately 0.05% of doing so if it had been the front door). So yeah--why not shoot through the door, before he has even a remote chance to grab her?And why not allow a mature 12-year-old the means to defend her life? Why should she have been forced to wait until her 13th birthday--a wait that could very well have proven fatal?C'mon, get honest for a f***ing second.I'll do you one better, Mikeb, and remain honest, permanently.
It would be interesting to hear the entire 911 call (or see the transcript). I can't help but wonder if the shot through the door was the dispatcher's idea.By the way, I did find this. Should make Mikeb even more pissed off that the girl came out unharmed:"When I had the gun, I didn't think I was actually going to have to shoot somebody," the 6th grader recalled. "I think it's going to change me a whole lot, knowing that I can hold my head up high and nothing can hurt me anymore."Empowerment. Warms the cockles of my heart.