Just saw this and didn't know if you had seem it yet. I'm not going to opine a lot on it quite yet because like many news stories, it can take a while to get the whole story. I will say that at first glance I don't see any mitigating circumstances in the permit holder's favor. If there were some sort of justifiable reason of self defense, I don't see how hiding the weapon would be a good decision.
I'm also not sure how you can couple aggravated assault and misdemeanor in the same sentence since in most cases, agg assault involves something potentially fatal as opposed to a simple fist fight. And as a rule, I think its normally a felony.
"A 54-year-old Northwest Side man who allegedly pulled a gun during a property dispute is the first concealed carry permit holder arrested in Chicago, police officials say.
William P. O’Connell, of the 7200 block of North Oleander Avenue, lost his permit as a result of the arrest, said a spokeswoman for the Illinois State Police.
O’Connell was involved in a quarrel over rent money with a 52-year-old man on March 23, police said. O’Connell allegedly pointed a handgun at the man and threatened to shoot him.
Police said the victim and a woman both identified O’Connell, who admitted hiding his gun. O’Connell took officers to a vacant apartment where they recovered a .38-caliber revolver, police said."
How does this "not support the pro-gun agenda"? Does that "agenda" require that no one issued a permit behave stupidly/irresponsibly/criminally enough for his permit to be revoked?
ReplyDeleteIf the story is accurate, one guy messed up badly, and losing his permit will probably be only part of the price he'll pay. How that affects anyone else, though, is left unexplained.
Yeah, this story is about "one guy." But he represents a good percentage of you gun nuts. That's what you keep denying.
DeleteThis one story does not support the gun rights agenda. You can tell by all the links you provide, Kurt. There's never been one like this.
But he represents a good percentage of you gun nuts. That's what you keep denying.
DeleteHe doesn't represent any percentage of "us" anything. He (again, if the story is accurate) represents hot headed, criminal thugs, but since I ain't one of those, he has exactly nothing to do with me.
Hot headed criminal thugs with concealed carry permits are called hidden criminals, and that's a group you certainly do belong to.
DeleteMikeb, you should be careful about committing libel.
DeleteAh, so you, over in Italy, somehow can say for sure that Kurt is a criminal and you want him disarmed.
DeleteIs that because he couldn't pass the physical fitness test you want?
DeleteKurt, will you remind your knee-jerk defenders, first of all that you need no defending, and secondly that you've proudly admitted to breaking the odd gun restriction that you feel is unworthy of your obedience.
DeleteI think Greg and Simon make valid points, and I appreciate it.
DeleteBy the way, this is a change of subject, but I couldn't find a recent post where it would fit any better, so I'll just toss it in here. I guess the silly myth that gun rights advocates are "anti-immigrant" has kinda taken it on the chin, with the Second Amendment Foundation's successful bid to force New Mexico to drop its "no concealed carry permit for non-citizen residents" policy.
ReplyDeleteHell, I'd be willing to wager that some "gun control" advocates--perhaps some who are active here--would use the same disgusting argument that New Mexico did (unsuccessfully)--that background checks on immigrants, covering their history before coming to this country, are too difficult, so we can't be certain they "deserve" the means to defend their lives when out in public.
Let us know when the racist gun nuts in Arizona do it.
DeleteLet us know when the racist gun nuts in Arizona do it.
DeleteI'm almost positive that Arizona law does not prohibit firearm carry by legal resident non-citizens, so what the hell are you talking about?
Sorry, I read your comment too fast. I was thinking about illegal aliens. No guns for them no matter how law-abiding and inserted in the American Dream they may be.
DeleteI was thinking about illegal aliens. No guns for them no matter how law-abiding and inserted in the American Dream they may be.
DeleteAlthough I have argued against gun bans for illegal aliens in the past, the fact remains that it's hardly surprising that they, as foreign invaders, are treated less well than people here legally. If you disagree, try getting caught as an illegal immigrant in Mexico, and see how much you like your treatment. Actually, you should probably be careful to stay legal where you are.
Secondly, if you believe that the so-called "Mayors Against Illegal Guns" can, as they claim, not be against legal guns, then must you not acknowledge that one can be against illegal immigration, without being against legal immigration?
" I was thinking about illegal aliens. No guns for them no matter how law-abiding and inserted in the American Dream they may be." Read those sentences real slowly and tell me how law abiding an illegal alien is please.
DeleteWhen a non-citizen has his own TV show and speaks anti-gun, you pro gun extremists want him fired and deported. Do we give free speech consideration to non-citizens, or is free speech only for American citizens? I have no doubt if he were a pro gun non-citizen with his own TV show spouting the rights of gun owners you would be praising him like an NRA Ted Nugent board member.
DeleteActually, many illegal aliens are hard-working people who break no laws. They're courageous people who undergo serious hardships to provide for their families. You are obviously not as extreme as Kurt in your gun-rights fanaticism. In order to overcome xenophobia, one has to be a true gun-rights extremist.
DeleteActually, many illegal aliens are hard-working people who break no laws.
DeleteYou're making even less sense than usual, Mikeb--impressive. Being an illegal alien is itself a violation of law. That's what "illegal" means.
You are obviously not as extreme as Kurt in your gun-rights fanaticism. In order to overcome xenophobia, one has to be a true gun-rights extremist.
And make up your mind--first you accuse Arizona of racism, and imply that "no guns for [illegal aliens] no matter how law-abiding and inserted in the American Dream they may be," is an indication of that "xenophobia," but when I support gun rights for illegal aliens, it's "gun-rights fanaticism," exposing me as "a true gun-rights extremist."
Which is it?
Mikeb, illegal immigrants are illegal precisely because they break at least one law.
Delete"Actually, many illegal aliens are hard-working people who break no laws."
DeleteClassic Mike. This is going on the greatest hits album.
Interesting baseline there. We're all xenophobic racists, and the only reason any of us would support rights for foreigners and people of other races are because of our fanatical extremism on the second and other amendments.
DeleteHow can you label someone who broke the law to enter our country as being a person that "breaks no laws?" There mere existence in this country is breaking the law. I have nothing against people that legally immigrate to our country. I am married to a woman whose family has all legally immigrated here. I just don't see how you overlook the disconnect between illegal alien and calling them law abiding people.
DeleteAnonymous, I don't want Piers Morgan deported. I wish he'd go away on his own, but as long as he complies with the law, he has as much right to be here as anyone else. But I'm not obliged to listen to him, and it seems that many others take the same attitude.
DeleteI wish he'd go away on his own . . .
DeleteSpeaking of which, shouldn't he be packing his bags by now?
Oh, and there's something else from that same article:
If he does choose to go back to Britain, he will presumably upset the more than 16,000 people who signed a petition to "Keep Piers Morgan in the USA" because "no one in the UK wants him back." There is also a petition on change.org addressed to UK home secretary Theresa May that asks to keep Morgan in the US as well.
Remember, Greg, when Mikeb claimed that you "blatantly made that shit up," with "that shit" being your statement that there were petitions (plural) demanding that we keep him, and the second one presented didn't satisfy Mikeb, because it was actually a pro-Morgan petition, and you "obviously [weren't] referring to a petition praising Piers' efforts," according to Mikeb?
Well, now we have two (that makes it plural, Mikeb) petitions opposing his deportation, neither of which praise him (to put it mildly). One more apology Mikeb owes you, Greg, for his false accusation that you "blatantly made that shit up."
"When a non-citizen has his own TV show and speaks anti-gun, you pro gun extremists want him fired and deported."
DeleteActually, I loved every minute he was on the air Anon. He was the gun control version of Ted Nugent. His ridiculous stances, mistreatment of guests, and inability to control his emotions on his own show only served to force people to objectively look at what gun control was trying to sell and send them running in the other direction.
Here are your comments on the Morgan post. Times and dates included.
DeleteBy the way you misspelled because. Does that mean we should disregard everything you said?
Using your own words is not only fair, but accurate, and I won't get into your denial and deflect games as before. This is how I will leave it.
_______________________________________________
Greg Camp March 30, 2014 at 3:28 PM
We're the kind of people that a British soldier wants beside him in a firefight becasue we know guns. But Morgan is anti-American. He hates our values and how we do things. Good riddance to him. I don't expect Britain to take him back, though.
Just a little over the top description based in your extremism.
"Anti American"?
"He hates our values"?
_______________________________________________________
Greg CampMarch 31, 2014 at 9:54 PM
Mikeb, when will you learn that when I give you an answer that you don't like, it's still an answer? A person's stance on gun control is a good test of whether that person supports American values or not. If you support gun control, you're anti-American.
Which of course means half of Americans are anti-American, because they support gun control, laughable.
_________________________________________________
Greg CampMarch 31, 2014 at 4:07 PM
Freedom is at the core of American values. He hates freedom.
He hates freedom? Please prove that, and being for gun control does not mean anyone hates America.
You use the word "hate" a lot and without any proof.
_________________________________________________
This one made me laugh:
Anonymous March 31, 2014 at 7:34 PM
By the way, a democratic republic like ours is not the only system of government that promotes and protects freedom.
Greg CampMarch 31, 2014 at 9:54 PM
Name another system that does the same.
WOW, America is the only government that promotes and protects individual freedom. Again, laughable.
_______________________________________________
Try answering the question I posed above:
Do we give free speech consideration to non-citizens, or is free speech only for American citizens?
Agreed SS.
DeleteThe world also got to see on his show what I did. Pro gun red faced, screaming, drooling, eye popping, angry, gun extremists, just the kind of person who should not have a gun because they were obviously not in control of their conduct, or emotions. Unstable.
At least Morgan had the convictions of free speech and put those guys on to let them have their say, including having Ted Nugent on. If as GC says, Morgan is anti American and hates our values, why would he practice free speech and allow his opponents on his worldwide viewed program to spew what Morgan thinks is despicable thinking? As representatives of the pro gun crowd, they showed themselves badly, which, I'm sure was what Morgan wanted.
I can always count on guys like Nugent to make the pro gun side look like a bunch of red neck racists, and just recently a town paid him $16,000 to NOT show up. A clear indication of his racist hatred having a negative effect. Something the NRA publicity people (see post about the new NRA leader, ex publicist for the NRA) should not want to have as their poster boy, but they do.
"You're making even less sense than usual, Mikeb--impressive. Being an illegal alien is itself a violation of law. That's what "illegal" means."
DeleteKurt, it's embarrassing when you feel you have to pick on a tiny thing like that and pretend you don't know what I'm talking about. I'm talking about those illegals who break NO OTHER LAWS besides the immigration ones. You knew that and pretended not to in order to score a cheap gotcha. Bravo.
And of course, Greg and TS and Simon jumped on the bandwagon.
You didn't make clear at all that you meant that the criminal invaders "break NO OTHER LAWS besides the immigration ones."
DeleteHell, judging by your belief that "constrained by law"="voluntary," how was I supposed to know that you don't think "illegal"="break no laws"?
And there's still the matter of my question. Is it "racist" and "xenophobic" to deny illegal immigrants' gun rights, or is it "extremist," and indicative of "fanaticism" to support their gun rights?
DeleteOr are you going to argue that it's both, just to amuse us all?
ss, do you really see Piers Morgan as the counterpart to Ted Nugent? I find Piers a bit irascible but not nearly as over-the-top as Ted.
Delete"ss, do you really see Piers Morgan as the counterpart to Ted Nugent?"
DeleteActually I consider him to be worse than Nugent. While his individual comments may be tamer, Nugent is a rock star (former) and its sort of expected for those in that profession to say extreme stuff.
Morgan however, is supposedly a professional journalist and there's a reasonable expectation of some standard of professionalism, especially on the air. Why else would gun control advocates willingly go on his show more than once? All they have to do is not yell and let Morgan rant, and guess who looks like the reasonable one. If I want loud ranting, I can watch "professional" wrestling, and I never watch that either.
Kurt, I've given up expecting Mikeb to be reasonable. Once a person gives up the idea that human beings have inherent rights, everything is up for grabs. He just feels that society really is on the verge of his vision of a leftist paradise, if only we evil gun owners would disarm. I point out his errors, but I take his comments for what they're worth.
DeleteSarge, you're exactly right. Can we get a two-for-one deal and get shut of both Nugent and Morgan?
By the way, Mikeb, do illegal immigrants fit into one of your many, ever-mutable categories of "hidden criminal"?
DeleteOh right, sorry, Mike. Just like when you say "lawful gun owner" you really mean, "...except for the parts that aren't."
DeleteYour "Illegals are ok because they haven't broken any Other laws" thing is silly, but it's not something I jumped on.
DeleteIf you actually read my comment above, you'd see that it was about something else you said.
*yawn*
Greg--regarding your two for one deal, Jeremy Clarkson sadly refused Piers' offer of a boxing match. Maybe Ted could jump in--winner fights Alex Jones. Would be a waste of fewer brain cells than other interactions of them.
DeleteNugent is a board member of the NRA. His days as a rock star died a long time ago.
DeleteMike, you've even posted a similar event involving one of Chicago's "finest", someone who seems to have only gotten probation. I wonder if this idiot will fare as well as the cop,
ReplyDelete"An off-duty Chicago Police detective who pointed a gun at a cabbie over a fare dispute avoided jail time Thursday -- a resolution that angered the victim.
"I think they gave him a [break] because of his" job, cabbie Karl Clermont told the Chicago Sun-Times after the sentencing. "Any normal civilian who would pull a gun on a person would have gotten a jail sentence. I feel like he's a disgrace to the badge."
John Killackey faced up to one year in jail after being found guilty last month of aggravated assault and theft of service for the April 23, 2009, incident. Instead, Judge Thomas Byrne imposed 18 months' probation and 60 hours' community service."
http://mikeb302000.blogspot.com/2010/06/chicago-cop-gets-probation.html