Freep.com reports on the latest murder - suicide incident.
As unbelievable as it may seem, it was the man who did the shooting, he had no prior criminal record and it was over a marital/domestic problem.Here's the interesting part:
The Moores are the fourth metro Detroit couple in the past month involved in attempted murder-suicides. On Aug. 18 in West Bloomfield, Ellery Bennett, 47, stabbed his wife, Lisa, 46, before apparently stabbing himself and driving to the hospital.
On Aug. 22., Daljit Rangi, 65, of Lake Orion, stabbed his wife, Rosemary, 56, before setting his home on fire, and dying inside. She survived. In Westland, on Aug. 30, Lutfi Dashi,59, killed himself after shooting his wife, Ermira, 50. She died of her wounds in the hospital.
Now, don't go jumping to the conclusion that half of these incidents involve knives. Serious maniacs use guns, we all know this. But please take note of the higher survival rate among the knife victims.
Another thing is the frequency of these stories. I appreciate
what Jadegold said about road rage shootings being a daily happening anymore, but these murder/suicides seem to be just as frequent.
What's your opinion? Do you think increased gun availability, which the pro gun folks so desperately want, would have a positive impact on domestic murder/suicide?
Please leave a comment.
I'm curious, Jade, since you're the expert in all things unhinged gunloon, does this FBI agent pose a risk?
ReplyDeleteAnother thing is the frequency of these stories. I appreciate what Jadegold said about road rage shootings being a daily happening anymore, but these murder/suicides seem to be just as frequent.
ReplyDeleteAn interesting point. But are instances like this happening more frequently, or are these stories just being reported more frequently? Can you point to data showing a rise in the violent crime rate?
One of the more common dodges employed by gunloons is that gun-related suicides doesn't really count because--sleight of hand begins--someone desiring to kill themself will find ways other than a gun.
ReplyDeleteOf course, this ignores the issue of murder-suicide. After all, it is difficult to get someone to stick their head in an oven with you.
But it isn't so difficult to drive the car into a lake, or off a cliff, or leave the engine running in the garage, or push someone off a building and then jump, or drown them and drown themselves, or poison their food or drink, then eat or drink from the same, or ...
ReplyDeleteYou're an idiot, Jade. If you were any dumber, you'd be twins.
Mikey W: Your problem is that you really can't find a significant number of instances where someone was driving into a lake or off a cliff or poisoning food, etc. in murder-suicides.
ReplyDeleteOTOH, the vast majority of murder-suicides are gun-related. In point of fact, the NIJ says guns are used 92% of the time in murder-suicides involving families and intimate partners. The NIJ also says states with less restrictive gun control laws have as much as eight times the rate of murder-suicides as those with the most restrictive gun control laws.
Still not Mike W, but if it makes you happy....
ReplyDelete"Your problem is that you really can't find a significant number of instances where someone was driving into a lake or off a cliff or poisoning food, etc. in murder-suicides."
Don't need to. First off, murder-suicides are rare, and their rarity is what gains them extreme notority and nationwide press coverage. It's even more so with familicide as opposed to murder-suicide.
I got that from the same page as your "92 percent." Your 92 percent number doesn't distinguish from simple murder-suicide (with only two victims) and familicide (which includes children and possibly other adults), BTW. It counts both in the same category.
Secondly, if you look at the 8 percent, you will see the things I described. Plus knives, and strangulation, and arson. It's all in the VPC pdf. Go look at it.
In other words, those eight percent didn't have a gun, and still found a way to commit the familicide/murder-suicide. Where there's a will, and all that.
Taking away the gun will only cause those inclined to commit murder-suicide (those with the mental problems and drug and alcohol abuse history) to seek alternative methods. Just as in England, when guns became less available, suicides didn't go down. They continued on at the same rates, but with new methods.
Taking away the gun will reduce the 92% as a number, but it won't change the number of attempts and it unfortuantely won't change the 1100 or so dead each year from familicide and murder-suicides.
Only an individual not personally affected by murder-suicide would ever refer to them as rare. Any incident in which someone chooses to take the life/s of those closest to them should never be belittled. Those of us left behind to pick up the pieces and try to make sense of what has happened should be allowed to speak on the subject. How dare you speak of this with such disregard. I challenge to review the, constantly growing list of murder-suicide on the national abuse coalitions website.
DeleteAnonymous, Thanks for your comment. I don't think it's only those not personally affected it's also those with an over-arching agenda. All one needs to do is read the news and get honest about it.
DeleteYou have to wonder who Jadegold thinks he's talking to. He's calling anonymous commenters "Mike W."
ReplyDeleteMaybe he's finally gone completely off the deep end. Must be the Brady Campaign / Joyce funding drying up.
Mikey W: First off, murder-suicides are rare, and their rarity is what gains them extreme notority and nationwide press coverage.
ReplyDeleteThis is an odd statement since the number of murder-suicides has only begun to be counted in certain locales.
Taking away the gun will only cause those inclined to commit murder-suicide (those with the mental problems and drug and alcohol abuse history) to seek alternative methods.
Perhaps, but it's doubtful. Again, if someone is determined to kill themselves they could find means other than a gun--though studies show this isn't prevalent. Then, there's the small problem of trying to kill someone using the oven or hanging or overdose, etc.
You also mention England and claim suicides remained the same after guns became less available. Really? Considering the fact that guns became less available in 1903 and 1920--I seriously doubt statistics back up this wild claim.
Jadefool: "This is an odd statement since the number of murder-suicides has only begun to be counted in certain locales."
ReplyDeleteIt's not my statement. It's from the NIJ, which you quoted. So take it up with them, or don't use them as a source if you don't like what they say.
"Again, if someone is determined to kill themselves they could find means other than a gun--though studies show this isn't prevalent."
Really? What studies are you referring to, because almost anywhere any study has been done on the subject of guns and suicide, it is quite obvious that when guns are taken out of the equation, folks who are intent on killing themselves find another method.
"Then, there's the small problem of trying to kill someone using the oven or hanging or overdose, etc."
Again with the oven, Jade. Did you miss the entire last post? Eight percent found another method, and were successful in killing themselves plus another. Some used a rope quite successfully to strangle their partner, then hang themselves. Several used carbon monoxide with great success. The "small problem" is easily overcome by those with a will to do harm.
"You also mention England and claim suicides remained the same after guns became less available. Really? Considering the fact that guns became less available in 1903 and 1920--I seriously doubt statistics back up this wild claim."
Don't be a fucktard, Jade.
They also became less available in 1988, and again in 1997.
Suicides remain at about 6,000 a year, more or less, and have since at least the 1970s. Seriously, are you this dense in person?
If you want to dig all the back to the 1800s to see if suicides then were higher or not, be my guest, but please show your work.
Still not Mike W, but I appreciate the compliment.
Jade's selective reasoning conveniently ignores the 1937 Firearms Act, 1968 Firearms Act, 1988 Firearms Act, and the 1997 Firearms Act.
ReplyDelete