At left, Carol Bowne, 39, who was fatally stabbed outside her Berlin home late Wednesday. Right, Michael Eitel, 45, an ex-boyfriend of Bowne's, is sought in connection with the incident.
NJ dot com
Thirty days. Or is it two to three months?
Berlin Township police Chief Leonard Check said at his department, it's the latter when it comes to approving firearms permits and involves multiple organizations coordinating to give the green light.
Scott Bach, the executive director of the Sussex County-headquartered Association of New Jersey Rifle and Pistol Clubs, couldn't stress the former time frame enough.
"Permitting authorities are notorious for violating state-mandated time frames," said Bach, citing state criminal code that requires an application be granted within 30 days.
Either way, when Carol Bowne was fatally stabbed by an ex-boyfriend late Wednesday night just outside her Berlin home, she had been waiting since mid April.
Although the 39-year-old longtime hair stylist had filed a restraining order against suspect Michael Eitel, 45, the man allegedly attacked her shortly after 10 p.m. upon Bowne's arrival at her Patton Avenue home.
The Camden County Prosecutor's Office, who is aiding in the search for the suspect who remains at large, did not plan to release additional information pertaining to the case on Friday.
According to reports, Bowne submitted her application for a gun license on April 21 and went to see where the process stood two days before her death. Reports also indicate the police department had not yet received the results of her fingerprinting.
"This woman's life was tragically taken because of New Jersey gun laws," said Bach.
Lets not forget, this was an application just to own a firearm kept in the home. To say nothing of the virtual ban on carry permits by citizens. In fact, I recall a posting here of a Jersey resident who's gun license took two years.
ReplyDeleteIn Minnesota, a Sheriff may issue a temporary emergency permit if he believes there is an immediate risk. This enables a person to defend themselves while the carry permit process is underway. In fact, an acquaintance of mine received her carry permit about two weeks after the paperwork was submitted.
So, in other words, had her application been approved, the gun probably wouldn't have helped - which is usually the case anyway.
DeleteSince she was murdered on her property, she could have been legally armed. If she had lived in any number of other states, she could have potentially been legally armed and had a carry permit in the time she had waited for her license to purchase.
DeleteSo, in other words, had her application been approved, the gun probably wouldn't have helped . . .
DeleteAnd in still other words, "If the criminally slow handgun purchase permit process hadn't killed her, some of NJ's other vilely draconian gun laws would have, so quit your complaining."
MikeB: “So, in other words, had her application been approved, the gun probably wouldn't have helped - which is usually the case anyway.”
DeleteBecause of other laws, Mike! Yes, there are a myriad of anti-self-defense laws in the state of New Jersey that she would need to overcome to legally defend herself with the best available tool- all of which must go. I can’t believe you seriously just tried to use that as a justification.
In this case she was on her own property. Even in a state like California she could have legally transported a cased, locked, unloaded gun in her car, and then armed herself before stepping out of the car on her own property (no permit required). In New Jersey, there is yet another obstacle to defend oneself in their onerous transportation laws where she could only legally transport a case, locked, unloaded firearm under very limited circumstances (like directly to and from a shooting range).
Yes, New Jersey’s onerous restriction on the right to self-defense is multi-layered. The bottom line is this woman was trying to get a gun to protect herself, and the law didn’t allow it. Now she’s dead.
Delete"the criminally slow handgun purchase permit process hadn't killed her"
DeleteKurt's frothing fanaticism has provided another belly-laugh gem for us.
Kurt's frothing fanaticism . . .
DeleteNo fanaticism--and no "frothing"--here, Mikeb.
And by the way, when I say "criminally slow handgun purchase permit process," I mean that very literally. New Jersey law requires that the permit be either granted or denied within 30 days--the authorities' failure to do so is a violation of the law.
Given the anti-gun zealotry of the NJ government, I suppose it's fair to assume that the authorities don't like that law, and have taken the "bad laws be damned" attitude you so despise. Works pretty well for them, since they're the ones who do all the enforcing of laws.
Your tags for this post are quite ironic, Mike. “The Blame Game”? Is Father Pfleger playing “The Blame Game” considering your very next post uses “Blame the Gun Manufacturers” in the title? And “individual responsibility”? How does that apply? Especially considering in a previous thread you said that Governor Christie shares some responsibility in Ms. Bowne’s death.
ReplyDeleteThe blame game tag only applies when the object of that blame is not really responsible. Like Kurt's hysterical remark that the laws are to blame. And come to think of it, you often say the same thing.
DeleteMore fun than a barrel of monkeys.
So a gun law is only responsible when it serves the needs of gun control, is that it? If a state doesn't have a waiting period and a guy goes out buys a handgun, and two days later shoots his girlfriend, then it the law (or rather lack of law) that is responsible. But if a woman is murdered while waiting for her gun, then the law is not responsible because... well... because.
DeleteNo, TS, laws, or the lack of them, are not responsible for crime. It's your side that says this, not mine.
DeleteBut you just said it is correct to blame the NRA for deaths, as Father Pfleger just did with your endorsement.
DeleteYour gotchas are really a drag, TS.
DeleteKurt said, "the criminally slow handgun purchase permit process" killed her. That's patently false. The knife-wielding ex killed here, or am I mistaken?
MikeB: “Your gotchas are really a drag, TS.”
DeleteWell, stop setting yourself up for them then. You had to expect that when you said it is only my side that blames laws for crimes that there wouldn’t be a fountain of quotes from you that prove otherwise. Go ahead and blame laws, Mike. I didn’t say that we don’t blame laws. Just stop saying that you don’t do it.
MikeB: “Kurt said, "the criminally slow handgun purchase permit process" killed her. That's patently false. The knife-wielding ex killed here, or am I mistaken?”
I don’t like saying the law killed her. Yes, I prefer saying the “knife-wielding ex killed her”, as you’ll notice I have been consistent about. What the law did was disarm her. Or more appropriately, stop her from arming herself with a very effective tool against a knife-wielding ex who ultimately killed her. Is that a wording we can agree on?
This case is a perfect example of why so many gun-rights advocates rail against "gun death" as a metric of success. According to the stat that gun control supporters always tout, this case is a positive outcome. New Jersey's "tough" gun laws prevented a potential "gun death" (or episode of "gun violence") since this woman was only stabbed to death. When using violent crime and murder rates, this case shows up on the side that it should- it was a negative event.
ReplyDeleteGiven the NJ gun laws, do you think as many kids shoot themselves there as in Louisiana? Just your honest opinion, yes or no.
DeleteAnd as a follow-up question, assuming we can get a simple, honest answer from you to the first one, do you think the shortfall were all injured or killed in other ways?
DeleteMikeB: “Given the NJ gun laws, do you think as many kids shoot themselves there as in Louisiana? Just your honest opinion, yes or no.”
DeleteNo, but what is the point of this question? You’re affixing a metric to your question that can only occur with a gun- a subset of “gun deaths” (kids who shoot themselves). You know how I feel about the uselessness of “gun deaths” as a metric. And there are not as many “gun deaths” as a whole in NJ as there are in LA. There is a correlation between “gun deaths” and gun ownership- that’s why you guys prefer to talk about “gun deaths” instead of murder or violent crime.
MikeB: “And as a follow-up question, assuming we can get a simple, honest answer from you to the first one, do you think the shortfall were all injured or killed in other ways?”
Accidents don’t tend to have as much substitution effects as deliberate acts. Yes, if you take away a thing, people can’t accidently hurt themselves with that thing. So? There are more motorcycle deaths in California then in Minnesota, due to better weather and pro-motorcycle laws which encourage people to ride more. More people are injured from alligators in Florida than in Michigan. More people are injured in skiing accidents in Colorado than in Mississippi. More people are injured by fireworks in South Carolina than in Ohio.
Though guns play a pivotal role in preventing violence, their positive effect on accidents in general might not be so much- unless people who take gun safety seriously end up being safer in other areas of their life (which I wouldn’t completely discount). So I wouldn’t doubt that reducing gun ownership will reduce gun accidents, and since murder and suicides don’t’ work out well for you, it seems accidents (the smallest subset of gun injuries/death) is all you have left. Of course, reducing gun ownership isn’t the only way to reduce gun accidents, as we see that gun accidents have had a 95% reduction from their peak without wholesale bans and licensing restrictions.
But back to your first question, I wouldn’t credit NJ’s gun laws- they just have fewer guns. And because they had fewer gun owners to begin with, then ended up with more gun control. I believe that is a direct causation. If you don’t have a lot of gun owners who fight for their rights- you end up with a lot of gun control.
As I thought, an honest and simple answer is not possible for you. When in the wrong you baffle us with prolixity and pomposity.
DeleteI was wrong to say that the handgun purchase permit process killed her, and you were correct, Mikeb, to call me out on it. My apologies for the misstatement, and my thanks for your refusal to allow me to get away with it.
DeleteIf authorities violated a time limit written in to law, then they can be punished by the law. That's the way our system works. To say their "mistake" or lack of timely action is responsible for another man's actions of stabbing a woman to death, is ridiculous, the one did not cause the other.
ReplyDelete