The return of the armed guest!

Gentle Readers,

We last broached this topic when a dinner guest decided to make his opinions known about the Second Amendment by brandishing a pistol.

Unfortunately, it appears that the fact that alcohol was involved in the previous incident was left unsaid,but  should have been mentioned. That appears to be an important consideration when one decides whether it is proper to "carry" or not. Most people who carry give far greater weight to whether there will be alcohol served than whether the host would prefer that there were no weapons on the property as a factor in whether to "carry" or not.

To resume the topic, despite the poor reception at the previous occasion, the guest once again arrived armed. It was obvious that he was carrying as he was "printing". The hostess asked him if he was carrying and asked the guest to put the firearm away. To which the guest became indignant at being asked to "disarm". The guest left early.

After the guest left, the fact that he had been carrying came up with the consensus being that the guest was out of line in bringing the firearm for several reasons. Two people who also carried arms pointed out that there was alcohol being served and the guest showed bad judgment. Another guest was a law professor and pointed out that the hostess was well within her rights to ask the guest to leave.

I should add that some states require that the property owner is notified that one is carrying a concealed weapon (e.g., South Carolina, Arkansas, and Louisiana). Also, the Heller-McDonald decisions made it clear that:

Like most rights, the right secured by the Second Amendment is not unlimited. From Blackstone through the 19th-century cases, commentators and courts routinely explained that the right was not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose. See, e.g., Sheldon, in 5 Blume 346; Rawle 123; Pomeroy 152–153; Abbott 333. For example, the majority of the 19th-century courts to consider the question held that prohibitions on carrying concealed weapons were lawful under the Second Amendment or state analogues. See, e.g., State v. Chandler, 5 La. Ann., at 489–490; Nunn v. State, 1 Ga., at 251; see generally 2 Kent *340, n. 2; The American Students’ Blackstone 84, n. 11 (G. Chase ed. 1884).

I am not sure of the meaning of this incident since it seriously calls into question the judgement of some who feel the need to carry weapons. The Second Amendment right pronounced by Heller-McDonald is not one that allows for one to "carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose".

Additionally, whether or not you support the right to carry, does that excuse the guest's poor judgement in carrying to an event where there was alcohol being served? Furthermore, the guest wasn't "concealed" by the definition used by most of those who defend this practise.

I should add that these were far from being squeamish "hoplophobes" as the hostesses' husband is a retired army officer. Additionally, there were two gun owners who carry concealed weapons for their work who disapproved of the guest under discussion.  The gun carrying guest in this incident does not carrry for work-related activities.

For those who follow such things, etiquette experts are quite clear that weapons of any kind - guns, knives, tasers or stun guns, or pepper spray, are not appropriate items to bring to a social event as a guest.  Clearly, the guest knew from the prior event that his firearm was unwelcome, yet he insisted on repeating his unwelcome conduct.

At issue are not only the preferences of the host and hostess, the feelings of the other guests, but also the responsibility and potential liability of the home owners for any bad outcomes or incidents.  While the guest represents that he was a legal gun carrier, that is in this instance a matter on the honor system, as the homeowners in this incident have no means of verifying if this is correct or not.

This tends to suggest that the gun culture is inherently rude and uncivilized and certainly ill-mannered where the assumption is that they have the right to intrude their firearms on everyone else, regardless of the expressed preference of the host and hostess.  There is a fundamental disrespect in that action on the part of the gun carrier that is echoed in all of the many comments we have witnessed here where people have indicated their determination to conceal carry in locations both public and/or private, in disregard for posted notices prohibiting them from doing so.

The reprise of the CCW visitor.

Remember him? He is the armed guest?

It seems the wives compared notes on the incident afterward.

The guest's wife told him not to bring the gun. But it seems that he was too macho to have listened to her in the first place. He had to bring a gun even though he was travelling through a low crime area on a social visit.

The basic bottom line, It's rude and aggressive to carry a gun into a home where you don't live. Even if the people are gun owners, they can still feel annoyed at this sort of behvaviour. Etiquette would require the gun owner to find out about bringing a weapon before entering.

The general consensus was that the armed guest wanted to make an impression, but the only one he made was a bad one.

And don't expect to be invited back if you make a bad impression.

See also:
Massad Ayoob's The Gun Digest Book of Combat Handgunnery page 178.

Etiquette Question--Is it polite to carry a concealed firearm when you are a guest?

Dear Ms. Manners,

My wife and I had some dinner guests over last night and the discussion turned toward the crime in a nearby big city, in particular the flash mobs beating up people. The male guest announced that he had a pistol on his person.

We do not live anywhere near the big city and are in a low crime area. Footpads and highway robbers are a thing of the far distant past in this area (if they ever existed). I might have wanted to pound this person to a pulp for having brought a firearm into our house, but we posed no threat otherwise to this person.

Besides, since this was a dinner party, we could have poisoned them. In that case, will this person bring a food taster in future visits?

Even worse, the gun toting guest his gun by pulling it out. The gun toting guest had his finger on the trigger as he pulled the gun out of the holster. This scared my wife who thought she would be treated to a negligent discharge ricocheting off the marble countertop.

Is this acceptable behaviour?

Ms.Manner's response:

Dear Reader,

In ancient times, concealed weapons were carried by sneaks and assassins. In short, people who were not to be trusted. Unfortunately, there is a growing trend for people to carry concealed firearms without proper training. This is a sad commentary on modern society.

The fact that the guest unholstered his weapon with his finger on the trigger demonstrates that he is one of the great unwashed who really SHOULD NOT be carrying a firearm, either concealed or openly.

You should feel offended that your guest did not feel safe enough to visit you without a weapon. The fact that he came armed to your house demonstrates a very sick mindset. That is that deep down he is distrustful of you and your husband. Perhaps rightly so of your husband, but your husband was correct to be indignant at this behaviour.

Likewise, the fact that footpads and highway robbers are non-existent in your area shows that your guest is deeply fearful person: perhaps pathologically so. He was unlikely to encounter these types of miscreants on the way to your house which means his need was purely psychological. Even if footpads and highway robbers were active in your area,the fact that he entered armed into your house sends a seriously disturbing message about his deep down feelings toward you and your husband.

If anything,you may wish to either arm yourselves,or just not bother inviting this person to your house in future. The fact that he feels the need for a deadly weapon in your presence shows that he is probably not someone you should truly consider a friend.

In future, tell them to check the weapon at the door or just not come over if they value your friendship.