Thursday, December 9, 2010

Washington State Gun Sweep

From Seattlepi:

Federal agents have seized hundreds of guns in a series of raids against suspected gun dealers, including a retired cop and another man thought to have sold the gun used to kill a Seattle police officer.

According to recently unsealed court documents, federal agents last month conducted a series of stings against four men thought to be illegally dealing firearms at Western Washington gun shows. Court documents suggest that several of the men were sold hundreds of firearms without reporting the sales to authorities or conducting background checks.
Pro gun guys are always trying to seperate themselves from criminals.  The problem is there's a large gray area made up of not-yet-caught criminals who conceal themselves among the legitimate gun owners, taking advantage of lax gun laws like the one which allows private sellers to take money for guns without conduction a background check on the buyer.

These are the "Bad laws be damned" crowd.  How big a group do you think they are?

Please leave a comment.


  1. "taking advantage of lax gun laws like the one which allows private sellers "

    "Bad laws be damned"


  2. "Pro gun guys are always trying to seperate themselves from criminals."

    As well we should. I wish the anti-gun crowd would do the same and stop making heroes out of illegal gun traffickers and straw purchasers like Colin Goddard.

  3. Figured this would be as good a time as any to make an exception to my usual policy of avoidance of this place.

    "Bad laws be damned"--how awful. Sounds just like the kind of teabagger claptrap put forth by Henry David Thoreau:

    Unjust laws exist: shall we be content to obey them.

    Or how about:

    Any fool can make a rule, and any fool will mind it.

    Gandhi is another for you to despise, obviously:

    An unjust law is itself a species of violence. Arrest for its breach is more so.

    Don't forget that violent thug Martin Luther King:

    An individual who breaks a law that conscience tells him is unjust, and who willingly accepts the penalty of imprisonment in order to arouse the conscience of the community over its injustice, is in reality expressing the highest respect for the law.

    I'll soon be taking possession of the gun so hated and feared by the Brady Bunch, VPC, and CSGV, and pantywaist, statist legislators--the FN Five-seveN.

    In keeping with my own version of "bad laws be damned," I found a brave, noble ammunition manufacturer (who is apparently small enough to slip under the radar) who offers 5.7x28mm ammo with solid brass bullets (which, being "armor piercing" handgun ammo, is banned by federal law), and have ordered several hundred rounds. They'll sail right through Level IIIa body armor. Sweet.

    Since all gun laws are clearly unjust and evil, breaking the "armor piercing" ammo ban law is an act of nobility on my part, and I'm quite proud of it.

  4. Per usual, whenever you see a gunloon use quotes from famous people--you can be assured they are either bogus, truncated or far removed from context.

    In Zorro's case, the Thoreau quote has been badly truncated and taken out of context.

    The Gandhi quote is out of context.

    The MLKJr quote is waaaay out of context.

  5. Hey, Zorro, I got one of them evil armor piercing pistols, too. I don't have any of the cool ammo though, just the VMAX stuff. Fun little gun, and you can't beat 20+1 capacity (except maybe with the new PMR-30--I wants me one of those next).

  6. Anyone have any suggestions on a good firearm for a CCW permit? I like the power and stopping ability of the .40. Thanks Il Principe

  7. Sorry for the "doubletap." Blogspot and comments: feast or famine illustrated.

    Interesting that Jadefool accuses me of "truncating" quotes, when I sagely linked to every one of them (and none of the source sites would be, as far as I can see, linked to gun rights advocacy, or even to more generic "right wing" sympathies), and included every word of the quote, as presented on the source sites. I also note that he seems to have miscounted the number of Thoreau quotes I provided--I guess counting to 2 exceeds his mathematical skills.

    As for "out of context," I wonder if Jadefool is trying to deny that in every case, what Thoreau, Gandhi, and King are saying is that noncompliance with evil laws is commendable.

    Colin, I'm looking forward to having some fun with the Five-seveN. The PMR-30 is intriguing. Actually, I think they ought to take that concept even further, and do a .17 HMR version.

  8. Il Principe: My first recommendation would be the mid-size .40 Glock, the G23. If you wanted a really concealable .40, then I'd say the Kahr PM40.

  9. Thanks for the spin Zorro. I take back what I said on that other blog, you're as good as I remember.

    My point in exploring this bad-laws-be-damned idea is that many of you pro-gun fellas have presented to me an over-simplified picture of people divided black and white, criminal and law-abiding. You're the ones who often say it's one or the other, at least you say that when it's convenient. When confronted, you pull out the old Ghandi and MLK explanation.

    I take tremendous enjoyment at the fact that many of you disregard the laws you don't like, simply calling them unjust. It proves my point that you're self-serving double talkers who hide behind a mistaken interpretation of the 2nd Amendment and in some cases the Bible.

  10. " take tremendous enjoyment at the fact that many of you disregard the laws you don't like, simply calling them unjust."

    Then there are many of us that obey those laws even though they are unjust. We fight to get them changed or removed and applaud when they are struck down by lawmakers and courts.

  11. Thanks for the suggestion Colin. I liked a Smith and Wesson I looked at the gun shop and range I often frequent, and I will ask about the Glock G23 the next I am there.

  12. Il Principe: No problem, any time. It seems a lot of folks like those Springfield XD pistols as well, but I'm not really familiar with them or S&W's line of semi-autos, so I didn't feel comfortable recommending something that I don't have any experience with.

  13. Jadefool's Biggest (Only?) Cheerleader:

    I take tremendous enjoyment at the fact that many of you disregard the laws you don't like, simply calling them unjust.

    Of course you do. What authority-worshiping, "bad laws be blessed"-believing, statist boot-licker wouldn't be amused at the idea of mere citizens having the temerity to defy evil laws?

  14. Zorro: Your characterizations aside, it's very easy for anyone to claim laws are 'unjust' or 'evil' or whatever.

    Let's look at an example--there are several US communities that believe laws against polygamy and statutory rape are not just wrong and evil--but against the laws of God.

    So, Z, what separates you from Warren Jeffs?

  15. Jade: While you're bringing up examples of laws that people don't believe in following, I'm sure you've never exceeded the published speed limit, rolled a right turn at a deserted red light, failed to report sales tax on an internet purchase in another state or failed to report to the IRS the extra "income" that you earned helping your neighbor reshingle his roof. What separates you from Warren Jeffs either?

  16. Mike, surely there are unjust gun laws in your mind that you would not fault someone for defying… say in Kennesaw, GA (you too, Jade). And wouldn’t you be all up in arms if someone were actually prosecuted for flagrantly disobeying this law? Personally, I am not up for being a martyr- or the next poster child, so I obey all the reasonable gun laws, as well as the unjust draconian ones that my state has (at least the ones that I know of- an important distinction).

    I do want to clarify what I mean when I say “law-abiding”. Clearly, this does not mean someone who has never broken ANY law. By that definition, there wouldn’t be law-abiding adult anywhere on the planet (see Colin's example of speeders and tax laws). I have touched on this here before, but there is a huge difference between someone who rapes, assaults, and murders, and someone who drives around with a gun in the trunk of their car (not to mention any names). Those first examples are crimes of morality, and are also the direct actions that we are trying to prevent. Gun control laws have a degree of separation from these crimes on morality in that you are trying to reduce rapes, assaults, and murders, by reducing access to guns (therefore indirect). Given that you can cease to be a law-abiding gun owner just by crossing over an imaginary line, this is not to be a judge of moral character. Though a gray area still exists in direct crimes of morality (like vigilante justice), the law-abiding/criminal line is a lot crisper than it is for those who may or may not follow every (indirect) gun law on the books. We all can probably agree on 99% of violence as being right or wrong. If a new law were passed that criminalized all gun ownership, there wouldn’t be a single law-abiding gun owner left in the country- yet nothing changed in the character of those people. If you can’t see the differences that I am talking about, then it exposes your contempt for gun ownership itself, and not just the deaths and injuries that occur. Your end goal is not to reduce guns, but reduce “gun deaths” through a reduction of guns, right? Right?

  17. Mike is already on record of saying that Colin Goddard's crimes are excusable because he committed them with the noble purpose of advancing gun control.

  18. TS, Thanks for sharing that you obey even the laws you don't agree with. I think FWM said as much, but it was a bit carefully worded, so I'ìm not sure.

    What I object to is not someone taking a bit of liberty with laws, but the characterization of "legitimate gun owners" as being squeaky clean. I don't accept the AztedRed black-and-white description of people.

    What I always have said is there's a gray area towards the middle of the spectrum in which lawful gun guys begin to play a bit with the rigid laws. It gets darker as the deviations get greater, as guys justify breaking more and more laws. As the gray area turns black, you've got guys who are completely over the line and are nothing more than criminals hiding behind the guise of lawful gun owner.

  19. My "crimes" have no victims--none. That, by any rational standard, removes them from the realm of what can legitimately be called "crimes," in any moral sense.

    I'm an American gun owner, and I'm not going to the back of the bus. Get used to it.

  20. Zorro, Why don't you get yourself one of those Mach 7 guns. Then you can tell us all about the morality and non-criminality of your non-victim pseudo-philosophy.

  21. Jadefool's Biggest (Only?) Cheerleader:

    Zorro, Why don't you get yourself one of those Mach 7 guns. Then you can tell us all about the morality and non-criminality of your non-victim pseudo-philosophy.

    Probably a bit pricey for me (and bulky, and in need of too much power), and the fact that it's not expected to be ready for prime time for another decade and a half cools my enthusiasm a bit.

    Besides, there's no need for that much power to exterminate such worthies as your kitten-stomping heroes, or your corrupt judge hero (oops--corrupt ex-judge--and not a moment too soon).

    I see you have declared yourself arbiter of what's a real philosophy (a philosophy that agrees with yours, apparently) and what's a "pseudo-philosophy." You statists are hilarious--who else could combine pomposity with boot-licking authority-worship?

    By the way, if you, Jadefool, and your ambulance chasing dog friend ever find yourselves in need of employment--I bet you'd be perfect for the New London, CT police force.

  22. Finally picked up the FN Five-seveN, a week ago Thursday.

    The first pic shows it with the 20-round magazine, plus a 10-round extension, and the attached light/green laser. The second shows the (not entirely legal--idiotic, evil laws be damned) ammo, with a solid brass bullet that should cut through soft body armor, no problem, and then break into four fragments. Mean looking little bastards, aren't they?

    The guy who runs the company that makes the ammo says that I could put multiple 10-round extensions on the mag, and use a magazine spring from the 50 round PS90 rifle magazines, and thus have a 50-round mag. Don't really see any practical reason for it, but thinking of how unhappy it'll make the Brady Campaign enuretics, I can't resist. Have some more extensions, and a couple PS90 mag springs, on order ;-).

    Now I just have to figure out a way to disable the stupid magazine disconnect "safety."