In the gun community, I am a partially closeted liberal. In the liberal community, I am a partially closeted 2 amendment + gun enthusiast. Having a firm and thorough understanding of both worlds I feel I can credibly make two points:
1. This stereotype of (presumably conservative) gun owners is absurd. Flatly untrue, it betrays a total lack of understanding of the community. A total outsiders view, and if you are a total outsider there is really no point in trying to make a point by regurgitating stereotypes based on only the most fantastic and observable anecdotal incidents which make it out of the community. The fantastic is by definition NOT the norm.
2. There are vast amounts of fiercely closeted liberal gun owners who also know that this stereotype is absurd, and therefore peddlers of this stereotype are easily identified as worthless and untrustworthy by their own supposed brethren. If I can see how fundamentally flawed your logic is in on this issue, I can’t trust your logic on any issue, and therefore you are rendered intellectually impotent. Not a contender on any issue. The basic underpinnings of your thought process can not be trusted.
As a side note (rant): In the (what I feel to be artificially) polarized conservative vs. liberal climate of the US, I have observed that I’ve got way more in common with the average American conservative (and they have way more in common with me) than either of us do with the average American politician (conservative or liberal). Pretty much everything conservative media outlets tell conservatives about liberals is hyperbole, and pretty much everything liberal media outlets tell liberals about conservatives is also hyperbole. These stereotypes reflect not the majority of “normal” Americans, but the loud and observable minority of radicals on each side. Most Americans are NOT absolutists. It’s kind of why this country works. When reality smacks you in the face, Americans tend to make decent decisions. How they rationalize it to fit their ideology varies, but the decisions tend to be sound.
(For example, the American Buddhist community at large believes killing Bin Laden was totally acceptable, on the grounds of it helps to minimized future deaths, and it was because of his karma and stuff. Different rationale than the more practical “we sent a message to the terrorists of the world that we will always be able to get you”, but same exact good decision in the end.)
These misleading portrayals also prevent normal liberals and conservatives from getting together and hanging out by making everyone feel like the other is “too different”. That’s bull. I am involved in activities where I’m around conservatives and liberals all the time. I get along. Everyone is normal, everyone is reasonable. Honestly I think it is the “divide and conquer” approach being applied to us all for the benefit of the politician-class of people. The plight of the average American is at time good, at times bad, but if you are part of the politician class, you’ve always prospered. No surprise there, and hell, I don’t even blame them. Power = Survival is a fundamental law of human nature. Stronger = Winner. It always will be, no matter what recent philosophical rationale we want to hang around it. People like to debate on how best to cultivate strength. I say do it in all ways possible. Liberal ideas of strength in numbers, conservative ideas of strength in self-sufficiency. It’s not one or the other.
While there may be a few libs in the gunloon world--it's a rarity.
To support your claim of 'vast amounts of fiercely closeted liberal gun owners who also know that this stereotype is absurd,' you'd really have to demonstrate why the NRA and more radical gunloon groups like GOA have both feet firmly planted in the worlds of white supremacy and conspiracy theory.
To use your own standard of fundamentally flawed logic and intellectual impotence, you really ought to explain why gunloons overwhelmingly support candidates who champion the notion that white people are oppressed and that minorities are seeking to enslave them.
It's the "closeted liberal" gunzloonz that are the ones we keep reading about in places like FL, Minneapolis, TX, AZ, etc.,. It's 'cuz they don't unnerstandify how gunz work that they axadently shoot peoples.
democommie, You might be on to something there. The ones who keep going off the deep end are the closeted liberals. I'm surprised we haven't heard this theory before.
What a bunch of goofballs. All of Robby F's commenters are candidates for the Darwin Awards.
ReplyDeleteIn the gun community, I am a partially closeted liberal. In the liberal community, I am a partially closeted 2 amendment + gun enthusiast. Having a firm and thorough understanding of both worlds I feel I can credibly make two points:
ReplyDelete1. This stereotype of (presumably conservative) gun owners is absurd. Flatly untrue, it betrays a total lack of understanding of the community. A total outsiders view, and if you are a total outsider there is really no point in trying to make a point by regurgitating stereotypes based on only the most fantastic and observable anecdotal incidents which make it out of the community. The fantastic is by definition NOT the norm.
2. There are vast amounts of fiercely closeted liberal gun owners who also know that this stereotype is absurd, and therefore peddlers of this stereotype are easily identified as worthless and untrustworthy by their own supposed brethren. If I can see how fundamentally flawed your logic is in on this issue, I can’t trust your logic on any issue, and therefore you are rendered intellectually impotent. Not a contender on any issue. The basic underpinnings of your thought process can not be trusted.
As a side note (rant):
In the (what I feel to be artificially) polarized conservative vs. liberal climate of the US, I have observed that I’ve got way more in common with the average American conservative (and they have way more in common with me) than either of us do with the average American politician (conservative or liberal). Pretty much everything conservative media outlets tell conservatives about liberals is hyperbole, and pretty much everything liberal media outlets tell liberals about conservatives is also hyperbole. These stereotypes reflect not the majority of “normal” Americans, but the loud and observable minority of radicals on each side. Most Americans are NOT absolutists. It’s kind of why this country works. When reality smacks you in the face, Americans tend to make decent decisions. How they rationalize it to fit their ideology varies, but the decisions tend to be sound.
(For example, the American Buddhist community at large believes killing Bin Laden was totally acceptable, on the grounds of it helps to minimized future deaths, and it was because of his karma and stuff. Different rationale than the more practical “we sent a message to the terrorists of the world that we will always be able to get you”, but same exact good decision in the end.)
These misleading portrayals also prevent normal liberals and conservatives from getting together and hanging out by making everyone feel like the other is “too different”. That’s bull. I am involved in activities where I’m around conservatives and liberals all the time. I get along. Everyone is normal, everyone is reasonable. Honestly I think it is the “divide and conquer” approach being applied to us all for the benefit of the politician-class of people. The plight of the average American is at time good, at times bad, but if you are part of the politician class, you’ve always prospered. No surprise there, and hell, I don’t even blame them. Power = Survival is a fundamental law of human nature. Stronger = Winner. It always will be, no matter what recent philosophical rationale we want to hang around it. People like to debate on how best to cultivate strength. I say do it in all ways possible. Liberal ideas of strength in numbers, conservative ideas of strength in self-sufficiency. It’s not one or the other.
Don: All I can say is 'baloney.'
ReplyDeleteWhile there may be a few libs in the gunloon world--it's a rarity.
To support your claim of 'vast amounts of fiercely closeted liberal gun owners who also know that this stereotype is absurd,' you'd really have to demonstrate why the NRA and more radical gunloon groups like GOA have both feet firmly planted in the worlds of white supremacy and conspiracy theory.
To use your own standard of fundamentally flawed logic and intellectual impotence, you really ought to explain why gunloons overwhelmingly support candidates who champion the notion that white people are oppressed and that minorities are seeking to enslave them.
Yeah, sure Don. The Armed Intelligentsia over at the Truth About Guns is really a bunch of closeted liberals.
ReplyDeleteMikeb302000:
ReplyDeleteIt's the "closeted liberal" gunzloonz that are the ones we keep reading about in places like FL, Minneapolis, TX, AZ, etc.,. It's 'cuz they don't unnerstandify how gunz work that they axadently shoot peoples.
BTW, "vast amounts" of gunzownerz? Would that be, limk, FatWhiteMan? Maybe he meant, "significant numbers of" or sumpin, sumpin?
ReplyDeletedemocommie, You might be on to something there. The ones who keep going off the deep end are the closeted liberals. I'm surprised we haven't heard this theory before.
ReplyDelete