Cultural Norms; Culture Wars and Right Wing Ignorance - for Mike G.

Mike G. in commenting here made the observation that the founder of Islam, the prophet Mohammed, was a pedophile, way back in the 7th century.

Just for giggles, to point out the prevalence of child marriages in Europe, within Christianity, I did a quickie google search.  For openers:

"Child and teenage marriages in medieval Europe - common as a cup of tea."
"John McLaughlin, PhD, writes in his article MEDIEVAL CHILD MARRIAGE: ABUSE OF WARDSHIP"....(yes, there are entire books devoted to the topic of European Christian child marriages)

And then we have the institutionalizing of it in Roman Catholic canon law:
"By 'child' in this context is meant a male or female human being above the age of 7 -- for either gender -- and below the age of 14 for males, and 12 for females. This follows medieval canon law, in recognizing these as the limits of infancy and puberty" for purposes of marriage.
This site goes on to list a number of the more famous examples, like:

-"Thus, for example, when the Wife of Bath boasts of having had five husbands since the age of 12, she is not casting herself in the role of child bride, technically speaking, at least not in medieval terms. Lee Patterson's discussion of child marriage in Peter Beidler's lovely new edition of The Wife of Bath, is thus irrelevant to the present discussion, except as it relates to Richard and Isabel; Christine de Pisan, for example, was already aged 15 when she was 'given' to her husband, and therefore according to medieval definition an adult woman."
Bianca of Savoy, Duchess of Milan was married aged 13 (1350), and aged 14 when she gave birth to her eldest son, Giangaleazzo (1351).
Theodora Comnena was aged 13 when she was married King Baldwin III of Jerusalem (1158).
Agnes of France was 12 when, widowed, she was married to Andronicus Comnenus, Byzantine Emperor (1182).
St Elizabeth of Portugal was aged 12 when she was married to King Denis of Portugal and gave birth to three children shortly thereafter.
Caterina Sforza was betrothed aged 9, married aged 14, and gave birth aged 15.
Lucrezia Borgia was married to her first husband aged 13 and bore a son within a few years.
Beatrice d'Este was betrothed aged 5 and married aged 15.

So, is Christianity a religion of pedophiles? Because if we are going to fault Islam for the practice, shouldn't we fault Christianity for embracing and formalizing and institutionalizing it as well, from before the 7th century onwards?  Then there is the Ethiopian Orthodox church which still encourages marriages of girls as young as 7.

I object to the application of a double standard, where something is used as an excuse to condemn one group, while totally ignoring the same thing in another similar or related group.

Lets look at child marriage in Judaism:
I was lazy; I just grabbed the handy wikipedia article for this one, because the citations would have just been too darn long.  The tradition is one of marrying off  THREE YEAR OLDS, based on texts common to the Talmud and the old testament of the Bible.  So, Mike G.....are you going to condemn Christianity and Judaism, because their common founders practiced marriage with 3 year old girls?  I'm just curious, since you clearly don't seem very familiar with eithe Christiantiy or Judaism, and even less familiar with Islam.

Child marriage by religion

In Judaism

Main article: Child marriage in Judaism

Child marriage was possible in Judaism, due to the very low marriageable age for females. A ketannah (literally meaning little [one]) was any girl between the age of 3 years and that of 12 years plus one day;[1] a ketannah was completely subject to her father's authority, and her father could arrange a marriage for her, whether she agreed to it or not.[1] According to the Talmud, if the marriage did end (due to divorce or the husband's death), any further marriages were optional; the ketannah had the right to annul them.[2] If the father was dead, or missing, the brothers of the ketannah, collectively, had the right to arrange a marriage for her, as had her mother,[1] although in these situations a ketannah would always have the right to annul her marriage, even if it was the first.[2]

The choice of a ketannah to annul a marriage, known in Hebrew as mi'un (literally meaning refusal/denial/protest),[2] lead to a true annulment, not a divorce; a divorce document (get) was not necessary,[3] and a ketannah who did this was not regarded by legal regulations as a divorcee, in relation to the marriage.[4] Unlike divorce, mi'un was regarded with distaste by many rabbinic writers,[2] even in the Talmud;[5] in earlier classical Judaism, one major faction - the House of Shammai - argued that such annulment rights only existed during the betrothal period (erusin), and not once the actual marriage (nissu'in) had begun.[6]

Now please, Mike G, and your fellow ignorant bigots on the right wing fringe, NOTICE THE DATE on the following.  This is an article about 21st century child marriage in ISRAEL as part of traditional Judaism.   Betrothal btw? Defined by actual intercourse traditionally, not just a promise to marry later.

http://blogs.forward.com/sisterhood-blog/136547/
Jewish Child Brides — Why the Barbaric Practice of Marrying Off Young Girls Persists

March 29, 2011, 10:56am

By Elana Maryles Sztokman

"Ever since the marriage of Rebecca and Isaac over three millennia ago, the children of Abraham and Sarah have toyed with the practice of betrothing their daughters at very young ages. Of course not all scholars agree that Rebecca was actually three years old when she took the fateful decision to feed Eliezer’s camels and cement her destiny as a Jewish matriarch. Realistically, many scholars (including Maimonides, Tosafot and Sifrei, for example) argue that the age is a fabrication. Nevertheless, the mythology of the girl-bride has relentlessly taken hold, to such an extent that even now, thousands of years later, the practice is frightfully tenacious."

Mike G. tasked me as embracing Islam despite the problems with how women in some Islamic countries are treated.   He apparently decided that was because I was liberal; he was wrong in his conclusion.  I have a view different from his because I am far better read, far better educated, for example, on subjects like the occurrence of child marriages (and they occurred for boys too) in the three Abrahamic religions, and in non-Abrahamic / polytheistic religions.  What Mike G. would do well to understand is that a different conclusion can arise not out of a deficiency of ideology but from different information - information he clearly lacks.

I would suggest before he joins up with the right wing culture wars, including the rampant hatred for Islam, that he be better informed and far far better educated in forming his opinions - and in criticizing mine.  That willingness to condemn without fact or sufficient knowledge epitomizes for me the concept of an ignorant bigot.

Now, Mike G........do you want to tell me again how there is nothing in common between Islam, and Judaism and Christianity?  Because I'm just warming up on the things you apparently don't know about all three, particularly the things they have in common.  As a 'liberal woman' I like to be fact based, reality-rooted, and really, really well read.