Note on back of the Police Car:
81 PCT
Wouldn't that be NYPD's 81st Precinct? If it is an NYPD car--since the NYPD shield is blocked from sight. Although googling 81st Precinct only turns up the one in Brooklyn.
The 81st Precinct is located in the north central area of the borough of Brooklyn. This neighborhood is known as "Bedford Stuyvesant." A small section along the southern border is referred to Stuyvesant Heights.
Zucotti Park is at 1 Liberty Plaza, New York, NY 10006, in the 1st Precinct, which Google maps estimates as being close to 6 miles away!
I'm curious as to what a car from the 81st Precinct is doing in the First?
Does this really show what it claims to show? Somebody needs to check where car # 2361 from the 81st Precinct was stationed on the day this phot was alleged to have been taken. Although, it does stink that a car from a Brooklyn Precinct (especially from a high crime area such as Bed-Stuy) would be in Manhattan.
It seems I'm not the only one to have noticed this:
Only one problem - the NYC police car is clearly marked that it's from the 81st Precinct - and the 81st Precinct is in Brooklyn, not Manhattan. Now before someone decides that the officer must have been there helping with crowd control, standard operating procedure for big city police departments like NYC, Chicago, LA, etc. is for police to be called in to that duty off-shift, and to provide their own transportation to the area - they do not take patrol cars from other parts of the city, or other boroughs, to do crowd control somewhere else - and they wouldn't be parking them on the street if they were there for a long term assignment like that. Also, notice the green post office storage box. Unless they put them back, the Post Office removed them from Wall Street and environs after 9/11 so that they couldn't be used to hide a bomb. The shoes are quite a bit out of date as well - frankly, the guy looks to be a homeless guy and not a protester. Allegedly, the police ignored people who told them some guy was defecating on their car - does that sound like any police officer you know or have heard of? It appears someone is playing fast and loose with the facts here.See this from another New Yorker questioning that this shows what it purports to show. In fact, New Yorkers are sceptical that this show what it claims for the basic reason stated: an 81st Precinct Officer wouldn't be in Manhattan.
It should also be noted that this photo first appeared in a British Paper, The Daily Mail, with a reputation for poor journalism, rather than a paper from New York, such as the Daily News or New York Post, for which this type of story is their bread and butter.
In short, this isn't passing the smell test.
I'm not saying this isn't faked as I have no idea, but is it really so out of the question that if extra manpower was needed for the crowds downtown, that a unit from another precinct would drive there?
ReplyDeleteAgreed FWman.
ReplyDeleteI thought I had made a response to FWM that issue was addressed in the original post:
ReplyDeleteOnly one problem - the NYC police car is clearly marked that it's from the 81st Precinct - and the 81st Precinct is in Brooklyn, not Manhattan. Now before someone decides that the officer must have been there helping with crowd control, standard operating procedure for big city police departments like NYC, Chicago, LA, etc. is for police to be called in to that duty off-shift, and to provide their own transportation to the area - they do not take patrol cars from other parts of the city, or other boroughs, to do crowd control somewhere else - and they wouldn't be parking them on the street if they were there for a long term assignment like that. Also, notice the green post office storage box. Unless they put them back, the Post Office removed them from Wall Street and environs after 9/11 so that they couldn't be used to hide a bomb.
I know for a fact that Off duty WDC and Philadelphia police do not use official cars, which means I am taking that comment as probably applying to NYC as well. All three cities have tight budgets, which further adds to my believing that this car probably wouldn't be outside of its precinct.
The two New York tabloids haven't touched this picture, instead it was published by a British Paper with a reputation for bad journalism, which further makes me question this picture.
Likewise, most New Yorkers question the assertion that this was a protester as well.
Of course, the article provides a link to the 81st precinct--a simple phone call would verify whether this is what it purports to be.
Laci,
ReplyDeleteYou did cover it, I just thought it wasn't much of a stretch for a car to be out of precinct. However, as far as the whole "faked" thing, I would be have to see more proof that this actually did take place downtown before I believed it was actually at OWS.
NYC has interesting designations for its districts.
ReplyDeleteLower Manhattan is the southernmost part of the island of Manhattan, the main island and center of business and government of the City of New York. Lower Manhattan or "downtown" is defined most commonly as the area delineated on the north by 14th Street, on the west by the Hudson River, on the east by the East River, and on the south by New York Harbor (also known as Upper New York Bay). When referring specifically to the lower Manhattan business district and its immediate environs, the northern border is commonly designated by thoroughfares approximately a mile-and-a-half south of 14th Street and a mile north of the island's southern tip: Chambers Street from near the Hudson east to the Brooklyn Bridge entrances and overpass. Two other major arteries are also sometimes identified as the northern border of "lower" or "downtown Manhattan": Canal Street, roughly half a mile north of Chambers Street, and 23rd Street, roughly half a mile north of 14th Street. Anchored by Wall Street, in Lower Manhattan, New York City is the financial capital of the world and is home to the New York Stock Exchange, the world's largest stock exchange by market capitalization of its listed companies.
Midtown, along with "Uptown" and "Downtown", is one of the three major subdivisions of Manhattan (though "Uptown" and "Downtown" can also be used as adjectives or adverbs, and can take on completely different meanings in the other boroughs, whereas the term "Midtown" cannot) and can be understood as those parts of Manhattan in neither of these two other regions - that is, all areas between 14th Street and 59th Street, from the Hudson River to the East River, about five square miles or 12 km2. The core of Midtown Manhattan is from about 31st Street to 59th Street between Third and Ninth avenues, about two square miles (this is the area most commonly referred to as "Midtown.") The "Plaza District", a term used by Manhattan real estate professionals to denote the most expensive area of midtown from a commercial real estate perspective, lies between 42nd Street and 59th Street, from Third Avenue to Seventh Avenue, about a square kilometer or half a square mile.
I try to avoid the place, personally.
FWM, Laci and I were just discussing this over the phone; we agreed that it was probably not productive to call during the weekend. Neither of us could find an email contact for the precinct.. But one of us will contact the precinct directly on Monday for confirmation if this vehicle was present at the OWS protests in the course of policing the event, or not. And of course, we will report back here.
ReplyDeleteI suspect it will be like the case of the coast guard, which very specifically made it clear that while there WAS an incident in Boston, in an area sort of adjacent to the protests, they did NOT claim that a protester had spit or thrown a plastic water bottle at a member of the Coast Guard. That is contrary to the claims made by Fox News and all of the right wing blogosphere.
Which puts these incidents in a very different category from the black members of Congress who have multiple people confirming the video, that the tea partiers in question were verbally abused with racial epithets AND spit on. In addition to the video clip Laci provided, there was another incident on that same walk across the street, before they reached the steps shown in the video from Laci. You can hear some of the epithets in the video from behind those protesters, where there is a partially obstruced view of a confrontation with a tea party protester that was also alleged to involve both spitting and racist epithets.
Those events clearly took place when and where they were claimed to take place, involving the people they were claimed participated.
That is not the case so far with either the spitting incident that the right has claimed in Boston, and it is very much in question for the photo in NY.
The NYPD has maps on their website showing people how to find their precincts, and where the 'cop shops' are located within those precincts.
ReplyDeleteThe 81st is not only the wrong side of the river from the protests, there are some dozen precincts that are closer and in the correct borough designation that would be more likely to provide assistance, but even if Brooklyn did so as well...there are at least seven precincts IN BROOKLYN distinctly closer than the 81st that would be more likely to do so. THAT made it much less likely, in my humble opinion, that this was a vehicle assigned to assist the Manhattan police with the protest. Rather, it raises even more questions as to the authenticity of the who, when, and where of that photo.
Again, I would emphasize that Laci and I are attempting to be as fact based as possible, and nost simply playing a quick round of 'get off my side' about a protester.
I further commend the OWS for launching their own internal investigation by their independent legal advisers, of the right wing accusations of anti-semitism that appear to be as bogus as the rest of the assertionstions about the OWS protest from the right. Beyond that they have made policy statements repudiating violence, racism or any anti-religious position (including anti-semitism) on behalf of their protesters, which was publicly affirmed BY those proesters.
I don't know how much authority Here's the photographer's side of the story.
ReplyDeleteLaci, could you please send me that last link, the photographer's side of the story, by email. I'm having a heckuva time getting the link to load. Please put the link details here as well, in case I'm not the only one.
ReplyDeleteThanks!
This is the proper link:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.bearwitnesspictures.com/news52191.html
Dog Gone, thanks for thinking to contact the precinct. You are turning into an intrepid reporter for the blog.
ReplyDeletedog gone:
ReplyDeleteIf you call the precint make sure you give them the cruisers ID#. The photo is undoubtedly time stamped (my Nikons do it to the second) and that will make it very easy for them to verify--if in fact they are inclined to do so.
One could also check to see if the Daily Mail carried either the Teabaggist attack on the U.S. Congressmen or the incident involving the USCG in Boston and how they reported it.
I just talked to William Jenkins at the 81st Precinct community affairs office.
ReplyDeleteHe said that there was no way to verify this picture, but he would look into it.
I emailed him the photo and await his response.
Can you say something of substance?
ReplyDeleteOr do you just spout rubbish?
since OWS has cornered the market on rubbish....
ReplyDeleteAmerican media ignores large protest on Wall Street (Video)
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Ryan Witt's photo
Ryan Witt
, Political Buzz Examiner
September 19, 2011
http://www.examiner.com/political-buzz-in-national/american-media-ignores-large-protest-on-wall-street-video#ixzz1YQQiBmWm
Their video is not from the OWS,(its year old scroll about BP oil spill)..... yet you post it with no verification, about how large the OWS protest has grown.
The call to occupy Wall Street resonates around the world
We need deeper changes to our financial system, or tent cities of people angry at corporate greed will keep appearing...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/sep/19/occupy-wall-street-financial-system
The Gaurdian puts out a completly unverifiable article about there being 5000 at the protest Sept 19th and you are dancing a jig.
Yet any critical, images of your little "Oy We Stink!!!" protests are unverifiable fakes...
I think we have a substantive difference here, Rubbish.
ReplyDeleteI was unaware of any bogus footage on behalf of the size of the OWS protests; however where this is distinctly different is that there are extensive VALID video available that substantiates claims about size, growth, etc. for the OWS, re other positive claims.
In contrast, there is nothing like that for many of the negative things used to misrepresent allegations and accusation about the OWS- the spitting incident in Boston, or this, are only two of these unsupported or false claims.
The difference is the multisourcing, the multiple verifications of overall claims about the movement.
It IS equally wrong for other sources to use the wrong footage or to misrepresent the footage/ photos they show. But if the claims they are making are substantialy correct as indicated by other sources, then the result is quite different than a completely false claim.
Problem is with spouts rubbish is that he is verifiably wrong. Popular sentiment is turning toward the Occupy protests.
ReplyDeleteAnd I've personally seen one in action.
That must really piss him off that he's wrong.
This:
ReplyDeletehttp://cryptome.org/ows-series.htm
is a link to an archive of OWS photos.