1. Did we all notice that indeed, just about two-thirds of gun deaths are suicides? That was a point of contention earlier.
2. How about the fact that Japan's suicides per annum--almost 33,000--didn't get mentioned? That's as many deaths as our gun deaths, and that's the same multiplication factors as those wars.
3. Then there's the fact that while about half of suicides are done with a gun, the other half choose another method.
4. And notice how suicides--from all causes--are the tenth leading cause of death, while homicides don't even show up in the top ten.
5. And notice how poison and firearms are just about equal in all locations as methods used for committing homicide?
6. The thing that's missing from this chart is the number of Americans who defend their lives with a firearm in a given year. That's at least several hundred thousand, for the benefit of newcomers.
Nice to see a gun loon defending death. This must be the first survey of numbers the gun loon has accepted by this site. Interesting to watch the gun loon make these numbers seem acceptable by claiming they are no big deal because (as he states above) it gets his fellow gun killers off the hook from some supposed erroneous numbers attached to guns. It was you who kept changing the number attributed to suicides. First it was 50% then 1/3rd then some other number. No way you can be believed when you keep changing your numbers. Now on with your excusing gun killings.
1. does being a suicide make someone any less violently and avoidably dead? what about the many many murder suicides, estimates are at least three a week or more, where the suicide also takes others, often multiple others, with him (or more rarely her)? Nations with better gun laws than we have also have fewer suicides, including very few firearms suicides. Firearm suicides have been studied; they are far more often impulsive rather than the result of long term planning. Many of those who avoid gun suicides later manage to come back from the brink of suicide altogether.
2. How is Japan's suicide rate - not by firearms as I recall, btw - where there is a very different culture relating to suicide and honor -- an argument FOR gun deaths of any kind here? Duh - two bad statistics don't argue for something to be acceptable or desirable. Rather they argue that it is doubly bad.
3. There are lots of methods; we also know from the science that suicide victims strongly tend NOT to switch to other methods, and when they do use an alternative method, they use very specific ones. So, using that data (look it up campy, under suicide, substitution of methods) if we can prevent most gun suicides, we succeed in preventing them from using some other means simultaneously. Again -- you make an utterly failed arguments on behalf of guns and our desperately failed gun culture. See. 4. with the same rebuttal. See 5. with the same rebuttal -- poison tends to be much better regulated as well. 6. There is no support that guns save lives significantly, rather they endanger more lives; there would be far fewer occasions for defensive actions if there were far fewer guns in the first place, and if we kept them from getting into the wrong hands -- which includes many of those with CC permits. And that several hundred thousand number you cite is far from factual, and appears to be a gross and grotesque exaggeration, not - as are the deaths from firearms numbers - validated statistics.
1. Suicide is a choice. Your side likes choice, so long as it's what you approve of. I believe it is the right of each person to decide.
2. The fact that the Japanese commit suicide without guns shows that guns aren't anything but incidental to the number of suicides. Notice that Canada and Ireland, nations like us in culture, have similar rates of suicide, but strict gun control.
3. Fuck you, if you can't use my name correctly. But again, people have the right to choose.
4. You make a lot of claims, but you don't offer evidence.
5. You make a lot of claims, but you don't offer evidence.
6. You had a carry license and a gun to defend yourself, so you must have believed that they have some use. But if the CDC and National Academies of Science aren't support for you, you have odd standards.
Suicide is against the law. People don't have the right to make that choice. If successful, they cannot be prosecuted. If unsuccessful, they end up arrested and usually put in mental observation. Why do you gun loons always want to seperate suicides from gun shot deaths? If a person kills themselves with a gun, that's a gun shot death. Seems dishonesty is how you try to make your case on most issues, which proves you are wrong.
Greg, I've argued many times that suicide is not a choice for the simple reason that most who attempt it are mentally ill at the time. That condition diminishes one's ability to choose. But now you're saying it's a right? Please elaborate. Do you mean it's part of the same right from which you derive your gun ownership, the right to life? Is it some twisted reverse-right, that one's life is his to do with as he pleases? But that would again bring us back to the mental state - even guns are denied mentally ill people.
Please help us out here. In fact, if you'd like, write it up as a post and send it to me. It sounds like it could make for another thread entirely.
Greg, does your position not allow for ANY of the temporarily mentally ill people who attempt suicide in a passing moment of despair? Are you that unbending, are you that black and white in your unbending position?
How about people who are drunk or drugged out of their heads? Do people like that who attempt suicide make a free choice?
Well, let's see:
ReplyDelete1. Did we all notice that indeed, just about two-thirds of gun deaths are suicides? That was a point of contention earlier.
2. How about the fact that Japan's suicides per annum--almost 33,000--didn't get mentioned? That's as many deaths as our gun deaths, and that's the same multiplication factors as those wars.
3. Then there's the fact that while about half of suicides are done with a gun, the other half choose another method.
4. And notice how suicides--from all causes--are the tenth leading cause of death, while homicides don't even show up in the top ten.
5. And notice how poison and firearms are just about equal in all locations as methods used for committing homicide?
6. The thing that's missing from this chart is the number of Americans who defend their lives with a firearm in a given year. That's at least several hundred thousand, for the benefit of newcomers.
Nice to see a gun loon defending death.
DeleteThis must be the first survey of numbers the gun loon has accepted by this site.
Interesting to watch the gun loon make these numbers seem acceptable by claiming they are no big deal because (as he states above) it gets his fellow gun killers off the hook from some supposed erroneous numbers attached to guns.
It was you who kept changing the number attributed to suicides. First it was 50% then 1/3rd then some other number. No way you can be believed when you keep changing your numbers.
Now on with your excusing gun killings.
Anonymous, stop lying.
DeleteJust rehashing your dishonesty.
Delete1. does being a suicide make someone any less violently and avoidably dead? what about the many many murder suicides, estimates are at least three a week or more, where the suicide also takes others, often multiple others, with him (or more rarely her)? Nations with better gun laws than we have also have fewer suicides, including very few firearms suicides. Firearm suicides have been studied; they are far more often impulsive rather than the result of long term planning. Many of those who avoid gun suicides later manage to come back from the brink of suicide altogether.
ReplyDelete2. How is Japan's suicide rate - not by firearms as I recall, btw - where there is a very different culture relating to suicide and honor -- an argument FOR gun deaths of any kind here? Duh - two bad statistics don't argue for something to be acceptable or desirable. Rather they argue that it is doubly bad.
3. There are lots of methods; we also know from the science that suicide victims strongly tend NOT to switch to other methods, and when they do use an alternative method, they use very specific ones. So, using that data (look it up campy, under suicide, substitution of methods) if we can prevent most gun suicides, we succeed in preventing them from using some other means simultaneously. Again -- you make an utterly failed arguments on behalf of guns and our desperately failed gun culture. See. 4. with the same rebuttal. See 5. with the same rebuttal -- poison tends to be much better regulated as well.
6. There is no support that guns save lives significantly, rather they endanger more lives; there would be far fewer occasions for defensive actions if there were far fewer guns in the first place, and if we kept them from getting into the wrong hands -- which includes many of those with CC permits. And that several hundred thousand number you cite is far from factual, and appears to be a gross and grotesque exaggeration, not - as are the deaths from firearms numbers - validated statistics.
1. Suicide is a choice. Your side likes choice, so long as it's what you approve of. I believe it is the right of each person to decide.
Delete2. The fact that the Japanese commit suicide without guns shows that guns aren't anything but incidental to the number of suicides. Notice that Canada and Ireland, nations like us in culture, have similar rates of suicide, but strict gun control.
3. Fuck you, if you can't use my name correctly. But again, people have the right to choose.
4. You make a lot of claims, but you don't offer evidence.
5. You make a lot of claims, but you don't offer evidence.
6. You had a carry license and a gun to defend yourself, so you must have believed that they have some use. But if the CDC and National Academies of Science aren't support for you, you have odd standards.
Suicide is against the law. People don't have the right to make that choice. If successful, they cannot be prosecuted. If unsuccessful, they end up arrested and usually put in mental observation.
DeleteWhy do you gun loons always want to seperate suicides from gun shot deaths? If a person kills themselves with a gun, that's a gun shot death. Seems dishonesty is how you try to make your case on most issues, which proves you are wrong.
Suicide is a right, no matter how often you try to deny it.
DeleteSuicide is against the law. Oh, I already said that, but then it must be repeated for the mentally challenged and dishonest.
DeleteActually, how about you prove that suicide is a crime? Because a little simple research tells me that suicide isn't against the law.
DeleteGreg, I've argued many times that suicide is not a choice for the simple reason that most who attempt it are mentally ill at the time. That condition diminishes one's ability to choose. But now you're saying it's a right? Please elaborate. Do you mean it's part of the same right from which you derive your gun ownership, the right to life? Is it some twisted reverse-right, that one's life is his to do with as he pleases? But that would again bring us back to the mental state - even guns are denied mentally ill people.
ReplyDeletePlease help us out here. In fact, if you'd like, write it up as a post and send it to me. It sounds like it could make for another thread entirely.
It's simple: suicide is a right because it's a matter of choice. Rights ultimately derive from our ability to choose.
DeleteGreg, does your position not allow for ANY of the temporarily mentally ill people who attempt suicide in a passing moment of despair? Are you that unbending, are you that black and white in your unbending position?
DeleteHow about people who are drunk or drugged out of their heads? Do people like that who attempt suicide make a free choice?