Wednesday, February 12, 2014

On-person self-protection in NYC for non-leos?

By FzzTrooper from here:

Probably not the answer you are looking for but here we go.
  1. Common sense. Common sense is your best day to day option for protection. Not being in bad neighborhoods at night, avoiding unlit sidewalks, and keeping your situational awareness helps. Some shady looking dude seems to be walking towards you, maybe you should cross the street or leave the area. A gang of hoodlums are hanging out under that broken street light, maybe we should avoid that. Hey I can cut through this back alley to save 5 minutes on my trip, wait thats a dumb idea. I say this because most people are so oblivious to what is going on around them. You need to keep your head up and looking around. Plan out your routes so you arent in bad areas at bad times. Obviously some things are unavoidable, and just being away of your surroundings wont always work. But generally speaking if something looks sketchy its not an over reaction to assume they are up to no good. Seriously, that guy at the end of the street who is eye fucking you from a block away? Hes not asking for your number at 2 AM. The sooner you can see a threat and the sooner you can avoid it the better. You shouldn't let a potential mugger sneak up on you to where you cant run the fuck away. Which brings to my next point.
  2. Run the fuck away. Yes good self defense is knowing when to run the fuck away. This falls in line with my common sense point too. Shady looking guy heading your way, you change direction and he does too? Time to beat feet. You look stupid and you look like a wuss, who cares you're going home tonight. Maybe that guy was just gonna ask you for change. Whatever, you can just play it off like you suddenly wanted to build your cardio :p. Better to maybe over react and run for no reason than get mugged. Also, because you listened to my first point you shouldnt really be in a spot where something surprises you. That guy thats about to mug you? You should have seen him with enough warning where you can just turn tail and run. If he got the jump on you then you really didnt adhere to my first point (or are just really unlucky), and you need to see point 3.
  3. Comply. So you chose to ignore that shady looking guy walking your way and you didnt see him until he has you at knifepoint. Welp your best bet is to comply. James fucking Bond can draw and shoot faster than a guy can stab you with a knife at 5 feet, but you sure as shit cant. Drop your wallet or purse and see point two (run the fuck away). 9 times out of 10 they just want your money, and dropping your wallet or whatever might be enough of a distraction. I know its kind of defeatist, and I dont like it any more than you, but generally speaking it really is better to comply. I really hate giving in like this, but seriously it is the best option. That being said, if it looks like your about to get kidnapped or raped then you should probably start trying to get away/fight, but unless you are worth a lot of money to someone, or are in Mexico, your probably just gonna get mugged. If the bad guys dont want money but would rather just kick your ass in a senseless act of violence then see point 4.
  4. Self defense. Next off is some sort of martial arts training. MMA has gotten big recently and stuff like that can really help you defend yourself in case points 1, 2, and 3 fail, or if the bad guy(s) really got the jump on you. The best option here is to defend yourself, create distance, and then yup you guessed it, run the fuck away. Youre not gonna want to stand and fight. Block, create distance, run away. If you're really high-speed then you can get fancy and disarm, take down, run away. Last thing you want is to get into some sort of extended street brawl with some guy. Especially if he has buddies. You really better hope he doesnt have friends. James Bond can fight multiple bad guys hand to hand, you cant. Which brings me to point 5.
  5. Finally we get to weapons. Weapons are a force multiplier. If some people are really trying to hurt you, a weapon of some sort is your last line of defense. Depending on your local laws you can look into some sort of concealed weapon. OC spray, tasers, guns. Knives are just about fucking useless for self defense and you shouldnt even bother. There was a soldier on reddit a few weeks ago that told me more Taliban have been killed with bullet proof ceramic plates being used as a blunt force objects than have been stabbed to death. I dont know if thats 100% accurate but I wouldnt be surprised. When carrying a weapon all of my prior points still stand, and I can argue that my prior points are now MORE important if youre carrying. Just because youre walking around with a Colt .45 on your hip it doesnt mean youre Billy Badass all of a sudden. You cant go all neighborhood watch and head into danger. Point 5 is really really only when for when points 1, 2, and 3 (and depending on circumstances, point 4) have failed.
When I carry off duty I really stick to point 1, and if that fails 2. Yeah im a Bad Ass State TrooperTM but im still not gonna walk around the freaking bad parts Baltimore or DC or NYC at night. Just having a little bit of common sense is the best thing 99% of the time.
In your situation specifically, carry OC spray if it is legal, and just keep an eye out when your walking around. Street smarts. If it gets down to it, empty your can of OC and run away.
tl;dr: run the fuck away.

19 comments:

  1. 1."Common sense. Common sense is your best day to day option for protection. Not being in bad neighborhoods at night, avoiding unlit sidewalks, and keeping your situational awareness helps."

    I couldn't agree more. And you'll find that very few people with carry permits would disagree and likely follow this rule. But then there are people that don't have the luxury of avoiding those types of places. For example, they actually have to live in that neighborhood.
    Gun control advocates often seem to paint permit holders as either paranoid or out looking for a fight. But then, if that were the case, there would be a much higher incidence of justifiable homicides. Most permit holders are quite happy to let a person with criminal intent to go away.

    2."Run the fuck away. Yes good self defense is knowing when to run the fuck away."
    Again, I heartily agree. But what of the people who cant for whatever reason? If my children are with me for instance, I will damn not ever run away. What if you cant run? Physically that is.

    4."Self defense. Next off is some sort of martial arts training. MMA has gotten big recently and stuff like that can really help you defend yourself in case points 1, 2, and 3 fail, or if the bad guy(s) really got the jump on you."

    Again, refer to number three, what if for whatever reason, you cant. If you aren't spry enough to run, MMA training will likely be an issue also. And as the post said, what if he has his buddies with him?
    I'm also constantly impressed by the number of comments here which suggest that its perfectly ok to require a citizen to engage in a fair fight with someone who for whatever reason is assaulting you. Yet, they seem perfectly ok with the police using weapons to defend themselves.

    5."Finally we get to weapons. Weapons are a force multiplier. If some people are really trying to hurt you, a weapon of some sort is your last line of defense."

    Again, totally agree. And permit holders do also. None of what Fzztrooper said negates the efficacy of a firearm for self defense.

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    1. Do I have to remind you again to stop talking for ALL permit holders. On my own blog we've heard people who strongly disagree with number 2, for example. And even some of the other points, I'd bet would receive plenty of argument from some permit holders.

      They're not all as reasonable as you, man.

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    2. Sarge said get away--if possible. Mikeb, you gloss over that caveat.

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    3. "Do I have to remind you again to stop talking for ALL permit holders."

      I never claim to be talking for all permit holders, but please keep in mind that your postings and comments here tend to imply strongly that gun owners are less law abiding that the data shows.
      Gun control advocates also tend to couple the merely getting a permit and carrying a firearm calls into question the permit holder's motives and/or psyche. I don't want to mention and names, but their initials are Laci and Dog Gone.
      Just as your claim that all permit holders aren't like me, the inverse is also true, not all permit holders are like the ones in the stories you post.

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    4. You can't write a sentence like, "And permit holders do also." and then claim "I never claim to be talking for all permit holders, "

      For my part, I can't help it if the oppressive weight of the stories I post about unfit but lawful gun owners tends to paint all of you with the same brush.

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    5. Mikeb, that's because the media typically only show bad events happening. But you don't post many defensive gun uses, nor do you post the results of shooting competitions, and you only post hunting stories to disparage the hunters. There are millions of gun owners who don't get into the news, and you ignore them.

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  2. 1. I assume you have called the police in this situation and they will respond in time to protect you. No need for any of the rest.

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    1. Some shady looking dude seems to be walking towards you…

      You want people to call the police when they see someone suspicious? Tell that to George Zimmerman.

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    2. Good luck with that. You do know cops aren't legally obligated to protect you, right?

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    3. I guess I need to work on my sarcasm tone. A while ago the gun grabbers claimed calling the police was the best choice instead of trying to protect yourself with a gun. They dismiss any reports of long response times.

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    4. Zim was told to stay away from Martin, which he refused to do. A guy who wanted to be a cop couldn't even follow directions from the authorities. If he had done what he was told, Martin would still be alive.

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    5. If Martin had gone on to the house where he was staying, instead of doubling back to attack Zimmerman, Martin would still be alive--presuming he didn't get himself into trouble somewhere else.

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    6. Sorry, we get so many absurd anonymous comments around here that it's easy to mistake a good piece of sarcasm.

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    7. There is no proof Martin attacked Zim, but keep your lies coming, they are amusing.

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    8. "I guess I need to work on my sarcasm tone."

      Sorry Anon, hard to tell you guys apart at times.

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    9. "There is no proof Martin attacked Zim, but keep your lies coming, they are amusing."

      Anon, that isn't the way our justice system works. The burden is on the prosecution to prove guilt. Not the other way around.

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    10. You guys are the ones who keep making the false claim that Martin attacked Zim, there is no proof of that, so no basis for self defense, or SUG; and you keep passing by the fact that he was told to stay away from Martin. If he did Martin would still be alive.

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    11. Anon, when Zimmerman was told he didn't need to follow him, he said ok and was heading back to his car when Martin attacked him. Keep in mind, that however we argue it, he was acquitted by a jury of his peers in a court of law.

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  3. "There is no proof Martin attacked Zim, but keep your lies coming, they are amusing." So the eye witness statement saying Martin was on top of Zim and the pictures of Zim;s wounds that were offered as evidence in court don't count as proof?

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