Town Hall
One of the largest U.S. gun control groups is launching a campaign
against gun dealers who sell weapons to criminals which include
protests and a slate of lawsuits.
Officials with the Brady
Center to Prevent Gun Violence on Friday said the campaign will also
include a code of conduct it will urge gun dealers nationwide to sign.
The first protest will be on Saturday in front of a gun store in the
suburbs of Chicago, which has been plagued with gun violence in recent
years.
The group's president, Dan Gross, said 60 percent of
guns used in crimes in the United States are sold by just 1 percent of
gun dealers, which will be the targets of the group's efforts.
“They
are the bad apples ... who skirt the strong and effective background
check laws, turn off video surveillance equipment (in gun shops), and
falsify sales records all to cover their tracks and improve their bottom
line,” Gross said during a telephone press conference from Chicago.
I'm all for this, except I wouldn't use the term "bad apples." That seems to imply they are a tiny minority. The true percentage of FFL gun sellers which takes shortcuts or actually breaks the law is probably about the same as the percentage of lawful gun owners who are really unfit and unqualified, and for the same reasons.
Now you want to shut down half the FFLs. No wonder people object to unnecessarily forcing all private transactions through FFLs.
ReplyDelete“They are the bad apples ... who skirt the strong and effective background check laws, turn off video surveillance equipment (in gun shops), and falsify sales records all to cover their tracks and improve their bottom line,” Gross said during a telephone press conference from Chicago."
ReplyDeleteIf they have evidence of these things happening, they could say, show the evidence to the ATF who could either begin license revocation, or even criminally charge the FFL.
There are cases being investigated now and many that have been found guilty in the past.
DeletePart of the problem is the ATF is about as efficient as the IRS. That plus being understaffed in the field.
DeleteIf Mike is right and the number is 50% we would have to triple the number of staff to make a dent in the illegal activities.
DeleteSays Mikeb:
ReplyDeleteI'm all for this, except I wouldn't use the term "bad apples." That seems to imply they are a tiny minority. The true percentage of FFL gun sellers which takes shortcuts or actually breaks the law is probably about the same as the percentage of lawful gun owners who are really unfit and unqualified, and for the same reasons.
Well I'll be damned--Mikeb finally gets something right, and calls the Brady Campaign liars. The Brady Campaign argues that 60% of problematical gun sales come from 1% of gun dealers (which would mean that the other 40% are divided up among 99% of the dealers), and that "nearly all" such sales are the work of 5% of gun dealers (meaning that 95% of gun dealers can be blamed for "nearly none" of them). They even say that more than 80% of gun dealers sell no "crime guns."
Mikeb, though, says screw you, Brady Campaign--half the dealers have to go. Want them "snuffed out," as per Snuffy Pfleger's murderous fantasies, Mikeb?
You're the only liar around here, Kurt. I didn't call " the Brady Campaign liars." I suggested that their use of "bad apples" is too weak to describe the numbers of crooked and sloppy gun dealers.
DeleteYour slick math work is about as honest as that of TS. When the Bradys say 1% of gun dealers are responsible for most of the problems, that doesn't mean the other 99% is squeaky clean. Many of them are as crooked as their more prolific fellows but they're to small to get on the radar.
In this context, "snuffed out" means stripped of gun rights and put out of business, but you knew that, right? Or, maybe you didn't from watching too many gangster movies.
In this context, "snuffed out" means stripped of gun rights . . .
DeleteSo now you acknowledge that stripping one of one's means of self-defense is tantamount to "snuffing out" the forcibly disarmed? Good for you.
No, Kurt, you're not listening. "Snuffed out" in this context is metaphorical not literal. And taking away guns from someone is not tantamount to anything except taking away their guns. Otherwise all the disarmed felons as well as all the people who choose to not own firearms would be dead.
DeleteMan, sometimes your fanaticism and attempts at being glib get you all mixed up.
"Chuck’s was selected, and has been the site of other protests in the past, because 19.49 percent of all crime guns found in Chicago between 2008 and 2012 can be traced back to it, according to a study by the University of Chicago Crime Lab. That statistic, and others like it, makes Chuck’s one of the “worst offenders,” said Dan Gross, president of the Brady Campaign.
ReplyDeleteHowever, Chuck’s has not been convicted of any formal charges and Brady is not planning on filing suit against it — a major part of Brady’s national campaign against “bad apple” dealers.
Chuck's Gun Store
Guards wouldn’t let anyone into Chuck’s unless he or she had a Firearm Owner ID card during the Brady protest Saturday, Sept. 6. (Photo: Daniel Terrill/Guns.com)
In response, the manager of Chuck’s Gun Shop, John Riggio, said the study’s conclusion is an unfair reading of the data."
“If you sell and you’re a fairly successful business, you’ve been around a number of years, you sold lots of firearms. Unfortunately, a certain percentage of people don’t store their firearms the proper way or they live in an area where there’s a lot of break-ins,” Riggio said. “To really explain it to the general media and anybody, you really have to go to the ATF’s website and look at traces and how they’re all done and then look at the demographics of the number of years that person has been in business and how many hundreds or thousands of guns they’ve sold and then you look at the percentages. None of these are evident in these studies that they’re talking about and you can do whatever you want with figures. Is there any allegation that we did something wrong at the counter? Absolutely not. Or any of our customers did? No.”
"Riggio also argued it isn’t an issue of straw purchasers or gun traffickers buying guns at Chuck’s, mainly because Illinois has a “redundant system” for buying a gun. In the state, potential gun buyers must first obtain a Firearm Owner Identification card that requires a background check and about six weeks to process, and then undergo another background before completing a transaction with a licensed gun dealer."
“You can’t even touch a gun or a box of shells or a bullet unless you have (a FOID) first,” Riggio said. “At the minimum the person who purchases a gun from us has two background checks. That’s how the system works. Once a firearm goes out the door … it’s up to the consumer. We hope everybody does the right thing and stores it the right way. Does everybody actually do that? Of course not. Everybody is different.”
"When asked if Chuck’s had specific guidelines, such as those listed by the National Shooting Sports Foundation, the gun industry’s lobbyist group, he said he trains his employees personally.
“We would never sell — a straw purchaser is when you know the firearm is for somebody else. We train the heck out of our employees to watch that. So you would never know if someone was buying a firearm for someone else unless they told you or they were next to them pointing the gun out,” Riggio said.
“My rule is if you’re not sure, you don’t do it,” he added. “You listen to your gut, and your gut is always right — always.”
http://www.guns.com/2014/09/08/chucks-gun-shop-unfazed-by-bradys-accusations-of-bad-apple-behavior-video/
As the article states, no charges. And apparently, Chuck's isn't even going to be sued by the Brady Campaign. I wonder how many times the ATF has inspected them in light of these numbers that have been out for a number of years.
Back in 2006, then Mayor Bloomberg hired investigators to attempt straw purchases in other states earning him a talking to from the ATF for swimming in their pond. It will be interesting to see what happens with these anticipated lawsuits considering that the people making these incriminating purchases are acting without any kind of government authority that has been mentioned so far. This would mean that there would be evidence that could put the supposed buyers in hot water along with the FFL.
Good comment and very convincing. Straw purchasing is hard to combat.
DeleteThe remarks by Mr. Riggio pointed out the importance of safe storage in the home. Of the three major ways guns flow into the criminal world, theft, lack of background check and straw purchasing, I place straw purchasing last.
Nevertheless, it is a significant part of the problem and needs to be vigorously addressed.