Huffington Post
Before the ink was even dry on the 2008 Heller decision, the gun
lobby began to agitate for an extension of this Second Amendment right
to keep a gun in the home for self-defense to carrying concealed weapons
outside the home as well. The CCW movement, as it is called, spread
throughout the United States but with the exception of five states --
AK, AR, AZ, VT, WY. The residents of all the other 45 states must
receive a permit for CCW that is separate from any licensing required
simply to own a gun.
It's estimated
that somewhere around 10 million people now have CCW permits, or
roughly 10 percent of the people who admit to legal ownership of guns.
To listen to the gun lobby you would think that armed citizens are
responsible for the continued decline in violent crime, even though it's
anyone's guess as to how many people are actually walking around armed
each day. In 2013, roughly 450 people used guns in what is referred to as "justifiable homicide," while that same year at least 500 people accidentally killed
themselves or others with guns. The FBI and CDC numbers may be a
little off, but this is the only apples-to-apples comparison that can be
made about whether guns help us or hurt us -- and please don't waste my
time with the nonsense about how millions of crimes are prevented each
year by people walking around with guns.
This hasn't stopped the NRA from endlessly screaming
that "good guys" with guns will always stop "bad guys" with guns to the
point that the movement to issue everyone a CCW license has now begun
to shift to the idea that we should be able to walk around with guns,
concealed or unconcealed at our option, with no licensing required at
all. Called "constitutional carry," as opposed to "concealed carry,"
the loudest and most active proponents of this new credo can be found
in the Lone Star State where this nutty idea sprang from a group of
dissident NRA members who took issue with the gun organization's refusal
to back the open carry of handguns. And the result was a series of
guerrilla-theater events at which these dopes paraded
outside and inside stores and fast-food franchises toting their ARs and
AKs to show that they had the constitutional right to behave like
jerks.
I was always under the impression that Open Carry Texas's methods involve highlighting the contradiction of Texas law where open carry of antique handguns, modern rifles, and modern shotguns are legal to open carry, but not modern handguns. So then the question would be, what would likely happen if open carry of modern handguns was passed? Likely a lot less open carry of long arms.
ReplyDeleteIn many states such as Minnesota, its quite legal for carry permit holders to "open carry" simply because there is no requirement to conceal. And you certainly don't hear of people getting the vapors over it up here. Last time I recall was last fall I think when some busy-body library lady made a big deal of it in Mankato.
You're telling me some idiot actually carried a weapon into a library?
DeleteWTF! I didn't even know you guys read books.
Howdy FJ, I carry routinely everywhere it's legal, which includes libraries as long as the library isn't in a K-12 school.
DeleteThe library lady in question objected to someone walking on the sidewalk in front of her house while carrying. I believe we discussed it here.
DeleteThere suddenly seems to be much wailing and tearing of hair over guns in libraries, for whatever reason.Moveon.org has started a drive for a library gun ban in Washington state.
DeleteBut I'm a reasonable guy--I'd support a compromise, whereby if one discharges his/her firearm in the library without a suppressor, the library can fine the shooter--say $5. This, of course, would be contingent on the federal government ceasing to regulate suppressors under the NFA, and, in fact, on suppressors becoming entirely unregulated, at all levels of government.
Typical gun loons, just because they, they will. Childish thinking that leads to trouble.
Delete"Typical gun loons, just because they, they will. Childish thinking that leads to trouble. "
DeleteHuh?
I forgot "can."
DeleteSo you can carry and when you do you call anyone who calls the police and says, I just saw someone carry a gun down the street, that person is the nut, the one committing a crime by calling police. I'm glad they call. Let the police decide who's the bad guy, or who's the good guy. Open carry just causes trouble. Gun loons don't get that.
"Let the police decide who's the bad guy, or who's the good guy. Open carry just causes trouble."
DeleteThere is nothing wrong with a citizen calling the police if they feel threatened. The caveat being that they report truthfully. 911 operators have knowledge of the various laws and ask questions to get a better picture so the responding officers can treat the event as well as possible.
Permit holders are allowed to carry openly or concealed in Minnesota, at their discretion and it hasn't been a big deal.
"The caveat being that they report truthfully."
DeleteWhat makes you think those that call the police about a person carrying a gun in public are lying? Sounds like a gun loon garbage accusation to me.
"What makes you think those that call the police about a person carrying a gun in public are lying?"
DeleteMost tell the truth, but some like to insert things to add to the "drama". I have confidence in law enforcement to do the right thing for the most part, at least up in my neck of the woods.
Perhaps because of events like these,
"A man who falsely reported that a handgun open carrier had robbed a 7-Eleven in Virginia in under investigation for suspicion of filing a false police report, according to Fairfax County Police."
"In Ohio, officials have still not charged Ronald Ritchie for filing a false police report, even after Walmart security video matched up to his 911 call shows that he grossly misrepresented the actions of John Crawford III, leading to the deaths of Crawford and Angela Williams.
Crawford was holding a BB gun sold by Walmart while talking on the phone with the mother of his children when he was shot. Ritchie told the 911 dispatcher that he thought Crawford was loading an assault rifle and pointing it at people."
http://bearingarms.com/fairfax-county-swatter-investigation/
Not to mention, SSG, the "traditional Liberal Democrat" Mike Malloy, who has explicitly declared his intent to use lies to prompt a violent police response against people peaceably carrying firearms openly:
DeleteI guess what I'll do if I'm ever in that situation and I see one of these half-witted yahoos walking in with a weapon, high-caliber rifle like that, I'll just put on a berserk act. I will just start screaming Gun! Gun! Gun! Watch out, everybody hit the deck! Guns! Guns! Everybody! And then dial 911 and I will say, shots fired, which will bring every g**-damned cop within 15 miles. And then the half-wits with the long guns are going to panic and they're going to run out of the store and if that rifle isn't shouldered properly, the cop is going to take a look at that and put a bullet right in their forehead .
So what percentage of citizens calling the police because someone is openly carry a gun in public, are lying? Anyone can find anecdotal (or one) case, but you insist on leaving the impression that it's common.
DeleteNo response from SS. figures.
Delete"So what percentage of citizens calling the police because someone is openly carry a gun in public, are lying?"
DeleteVery few. I'm sure some call police here on occasion up here, but its usually a nonevent. Officer looks at the permit, part company, etc.
However, the notable exceptions that I listed above are illustrating a trend.
"The injunction was a particularly colorful one, but the idea behind it, alas, is not as uncommon as one might wish. “I see you #opencarry with a gun in public,” a man named “joe villa” threatened earlier this week, “i’m calling the cops. psycho behaving erratic. make your day.” A translation for the more literate among us: “The law be damned; exercise your rights under the law and I’ll threaten your life.”
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/389441/moms-demand-swatting-charles-c-w-cooke
Darn link again.....
Deletehttp://www.nationalreview.com/article/389441/moms-demand-swatting-charles-c-w-cooke
Thanks for that non response, response SS.
DeleteOpen Carry Texas demonstrations were for the purpose of advocating open carry. It is in their name after all. I'm sure there's lots of cross over in that their members would also like constitutional carry, but that's not what the gatherings were about.
ReplyDeleteYes, this post is about Constitutional Carry, one of the crazier ideas of our time.
DeleteIt seems to have worked ok in Vermont, which seems to have never required carry permits,
Delete"From the formation of the 13 original states, "constitutional carry" was the law in all states until the 1800s. By the 20th century, all states except Vermont had enacted concealed carry bans, with the exemption in most states for those citizens with a permit. Due to its tightly worded state constitution,[1] Vermont has never been able to have a restriction on the method of how one could carry a firearm, and thus, in this regard, Vermont stood entirely separate from the rest of the United States for quite some time."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitutional_Carry#Vermont
Perhaps the fact that they "grew up" with it is why it works so well there.
Yes, our ancestors thought a more peaceful society meant people wouldn't/shouldn't need to carry a gun in public. How outrageous.
DeleteInteresting that one of the most nonviolent states in the union doesn't have a problem with its citizens making the decision to carry an individual one. And it seems to work quite well.
DeleteJust like you can't blame the high number of guns for the murder rate, according to you guys anyway, you can't take credit for Vermont's low rate of violence because of Constitutional Carry, but that's what you keep doing.
Delete. . . you can't take credit for Vermont's low rate of violence because of Constitutional Carry, but that's what you keep doing.
DeleteWho is "you"? I've long and consistently rejected that kind of thinking, as has TS. In this discussion, SSG rightly pointed out that Constitutional carry has clearly caused no problems in Vermont, but that's obviously a vast distance from crediting Constitutional carry for Vermont's minuscule rate of violence.
One State SS. I guess that just means Vermont is not full of idiot gun loons because the gun shot death rate has not gone down nationwide. But you keep pretending America has no gun problem.
DeleteThat's nonsense, Kurt. Every time Vermont is mentioned by you guys in the gun debate it's to credit Constitutional Carry for Vermont's supposed placid atmosphere. Even if you don't say it directly, that's the intent. The distance between what ss said and what I said is not so "vast" as you would have us believe.
DeleteEvery time Vermont is mentioned by you guys in the gun debate it's to credit Constitutional Carry for Vermont's supposed placid atmosphere.
DeleteThen you shouldn't have any trouble finding examples. I'll wait. And no--I'm not interested in what you claim to be "the intent" of what's said. Show me examples of people saying what you claim they're saying.
The distance between what ss said and what I said is not so "vast" as you would have us believe.
And yes--the distance between "Constitutional carry has made Vermont one of the least violent states in the country," and "Constitutional carry hasn't prevented Vermont from being among the least violent states," is indeed vast--as vast as the difference between causation and correlation.
The difference between what's going on in one State and what's going on nationwide, is vast, which makes your Vermont example a false comparison.
DeleteI bet Weisser is going to be hitting the sauce pretty hard after this latest great news for America: a federal court has ruled that the interstate handgun sales ban is unconstitutional.
ReplyDeleteGotta dig on that.
I always forget that you guys really love your guns. Just a little bit foreign to me.
ReplyDeleteI have an artist grand piano that was built in Chicago by the Straube piano factory, actually as a player piano. I only paid $600 at a thrift store and paid $850 to restore it. I am hoping to buy a piano truck that adapts to double piano legs. I consider it a worthwhile investment even though my piano is ninety-five years old.
My mom and dad also have a 1965 Kawai that I helped them select. We still play flute duets and lots of Beethoven.
We also like children, animals, travel and nice cars. And I have to take everyone to the beach at least twenty times every summer. Here's hoping that everyone gets a golden retriever at least once in their lifetime.
Love to All
FJ
I'm with you, FJ.
Delete