Monday, January 10, 2011

So, Who is at Fault Then?

After rejecting all the overtures of blame we've been reading lately, The Fishing Musician has this to suggest, which I kinda like.

So who is at fault? Well, we are. All of us. We don't have a mental health system in this country that reports individuals like this to some sort of clearinghouse, to be interfaced with the ATF and FBI and whoever else controls the sale of firearms in various states. Had the Junior College Police Department in this case had some place where his name as a prospective mental patient could have been reported, with no liability to them for doing so, then perhaps he could have been prohibited from buying this pistol new from a lawful dealer.
What do you think? There is a great difficulty in identifying the mental defectives among us. The system needs to be strengthened in some way.

What do you think? Please leave a comment.


  1. It's the NRA's fault.

    Look, Loughner was someone the Army wouldn't take and they take just about everyone these days. He also got kickedd out of community college until he could pass a psych evaluation.

    Yet, he could march into any gun store and buy whatever weapon he wanted.

    Gunloons like to make a lot of noises about being responsible and law-abiding--but they seem awfully willing to allow any mental defective to walk into a gun store and buy an arsenal.

  2. Actually Jade, the FBI let him walk into a gunstore and buy a gun.

    Really, now one pistol is an arsenal.

    How about instead of trying to place blame everywhere, how about we place it on the moonbat nutcase that actually committed the crime? Would that be too hard to believe? That it is the fault of the criminal that actually committed the crime?

  3. Nope, it's the NRA. After all, the Army knew they didn't want him. His CC said go away until you can pass a mental health exam.

    The blame goes on every gunowner.

  4. The NRA is not responsible for determining who is mentally unfit. You don’t want them to be the ones who get to determine that, and neither do I. They have not opposed denying purchases to those mentally unfit, so why don’t you think about what it would take to get Loughner on that list instead of incessantly blaming the NRA.

  5. TS: Let's assume what you say is correct--it's not--but let's pretend it is.

    When can we expect the NRA to call for legislation demanding psych evaluations for gun purchases? When can we expect the NRA to demand periodic checks to ensure all gun owners meet mental health standards?

    I think we both know the answer to those questions.

  6. Supporting a process that denies gun ownership to those deemed unfit by a mental health professional is quite a bit different than assuming everyone is crazy and having to prove otherwise to exercise your rights. Especially since I am sure you would want it on your terms. How many times have you called us “loons” or “paranoid”?

  7. TS: Guess what? Virtually every endeavor one undertakes in life requires some process of ascertaining sanity. Most jobs will require this info. As we've seen, Loughner was rejected by the military and his community college kicked him out until he underwent a psych eval.

    But he could march in buy a gun.

    BTW, gunloons seem to love Israeli gun laws which happen to require would-be gun owners to furnish proof of mental fitness.

  8. From the other side, we all have flirted with madness. It's a part of adolescence. Most of us make it to the other side, but many of us don't and never will.

    That's part and parcel of the freedom we have chosen and have to protect. When you start applying standards to individual behavior, you create even more serious problems than the ones you think you are trying to solve.

    But, I will admit that America has no real mental health system, because it has no real preventative health system. A healthy society will never be perfect, but in the long run, the cases of loners and outsiders who fall deeper and deeper into their own private hells would be a lot less rarer than what we see in America today.

    I think France is a pretty good example. Preventative medicine is what keeps the cost of health care down.
    Preventative mental health care doesn't stifle the individual, but creates an atmosphere which reinforces healthy behavior.

    I do believe that a "sane" society would be pretty boring.

  9. Well then Jade, if we have all ascertained our sanity dozens of times over, it seems there is no need for the separate and periodic psych evaluation you are proposing. And since you are saying the army knew about Loughner’s issues, it would seem to be a reporting issue.

  10. I agree that the NRA and gun owners at large are partly responsible. Another part is the responsibility goes to those who speak that lunatic rhetoric so many people have been writing about these days. And, just to make FWM happy, I blame the shooter himself. To whatever degree he was mentally sound enough to choose what he was doing, I say he's guilty for his crimes.