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| Strange Logic ala Farago |
Apparently, Robert Farago takes exception to the term "gun violence."
Farago's Complaint™* is a fairly common gunloon red herring; it relies on assuming violence would take place to the same extent and severity regardless if guns were not involved. IOW, violence would occur to the same degree and as frequently even if guns were removed from society.
Of course, this is a complete warping of reality. It's really hard to engage in a driveby knifing. And if one ever gets the urge to go "postal" on one's coworkers, it's difficult to get your car on the elevator to attack your boss and coworkers on the fourth floor. You may even elicit giggles if you try to rob a bank with a baseball bat. What Farago ignores is the fact a firearm greatly enhances both the feasibility and the ability to kill. It can't be disputed that someone entertaining the notion of murder, mayhem, and violence will find a firearm enhances the feasibility and ability to kill larger or stronger people, kill multiple people, and/or to do so from a distance or a place of concealment.
Farago also hauls out the "blaming the gun" crapola. It's a favorite bumper sticker slogan (Guns don't kill people, People kill People). But, like most gunloon arguments and slogans, it's meant to deflect attention away from what can't be denied--guns greatly facilitate the killing of people. We could just as easily deflect attention away from people by claiming "Fingers don't kill people, bullets do."
Tiring of parroting slogans, Farago shifts gears. Into conspiracy overdrive. You see, Farago has super-secret knowledge that gun control groups are secretly working to take away all guns. From everyone. Everywhere. Of course, Farago's evidence for such a claim is....well, er...need he say more?
As I sagely noted the other day, it's hard to poke fun at gunloons when they do such a wonderful job at being parodies. For sheer entertainment value, read the Wonkette commenters. The commenters express their views of gunloons and the NRA. This is how most people see you, Robert. The vast majority of Americans see gunloons as the crazy uncle in the family nobody talks about and won't allow the kids alone with.
* not to be confused with Portnoy's Complaint: A disorder in which strongly felt ethical and altruistic impulses are perpetually warring with extreme sexual longings, often of a perverse nature...Farago's Complaint ™ is a disorder where extreme sexual longings for firearms are in conflict with reality.
"The vast majority of Americans see gunloons as the crazy uncle in the family nobody talks about and won't allow the kids alone with."
ReplyDeleteThe vast majority of Americans are gun owners. We look at you and your kind and see hysterical paranoids who don't trust anyone to act responsibly.
Anon: Gunloons are different than gunowners. Gunloons are the ones who believe they need assault weapons and oppose any and all gun control initiatives. And they believe CCW is a 2A right.
ReplyDeleteThe facts are plain: the vast majority of Americans disagree with you. Not just that, most think there's something wrong with you.
Ok, Jade, so why not use murder rates and violent crime rates as your measure then? Why are these ignored in favor of the “gun death” measurement?
ReplyDeleteTS,you don't want to do that because firearms are the most used implement for killing.
ReplyDeleteAfter all, that is what they were designed for.
Laci: “TS,you don't want to do that because firearms are the most used implement for killing.”
ReplyDeleteSo why don’t you want to do that? Why always “gun deaths”? Have you done your homework on comparing ownership to murder rates that we talked about here? Because I have. Why don’t you start a new post on the subject?
http://mikeb302000.blogspot.com/2011/09/easy-pickins-for-gun-burglars.html
So what would it mean if there were no relationship between gun ownership and murder?
Do you want more numbers, TS?
ReplyDeleteCome on, the numbers show that there are very few defensive gun uses compared to people killed by guns.
So what would it mean if there were no relationship between gun ownership and murder?
It would mean that the pixies were doing their job.
The problem is that number is pretty obvious from what I've posted.
Firearms were used in 12,632 homicides while cars were used in 30 homicides during 2007. Firearms were used in 17,352 suicides and cars were used in 131 suicides during 2007. according to WISQARS. While you can get into the fact that the total deaths for that period were more for automobiles, that was due to accidents, not intent to kill.
We can add in how many cars are out there combined with how many miles are driven per year for why cars have a higher accidental death rate. Itr more frequency than the fact that cars are designed to injure or kill.
Any other stupid comments, TS?
"Ok, Jade, so why not use murder rates and violent crime rates as your measure then? Why are these ignored in favor of the “gun death” measurement?"
ReplyDeleteAnswered. You're assuming--in the absence of guns--murder and violence numbers would remain the same. They wouldn't.
It's kind of like pretending mortality numbers would be the same if cancer were eliminated.
Anonyloser sez:
ReplyDelete"The vast majority of Americans are gun owners. We look at you and your kind and see hysterical paranoids who don't trust anyone to act responsibly.
September 27, 2011 4:17 PM"
And he's a bad liar--or dumber than a stump.
Teh Google is not your friend if you're pushing bad data or outright lies like his.
This:
Gun Ownership in U.S. Declining
Friday, April 29, 2011
Fewer Americans own guns these days, according to a new report that shows a three-decade decline in the percentage of personal and household ownership of pistols and rifles. Using data collected by the federal government, the National Opinion Research Center at the University of Chicago, which has been tracking such figures since 1972, determined the percentage of American households that reported having any guns dropped more than 40% from 1977 to 2010. Also, the percentage of Americans who reported personally owning a gun dropped more than 32% from 1985 to 2010.
In 2010, only 32.3% of U.S. households owned guns and only 20.8% of individuals claimed personal gun ownership. The number for women was 9.9%.
Studying the statistics, the Violence Policy Center posited several reasons for the decline, including a lack of interest in guns by youth, the decreasing popularity of hunting and the aging of the current gun-owning population—primarily white males.
-Noel Brinkerhoff, David Wallechinsky
is from here, http://www.allgov.com/Top_Stories/ViewNews/Gun_Ownership_in_US_Declining_110429
VAST majority would be something on the order of >60%, about double the rate the survey comes up with.
I'm sure that TS and others will decry the study as being a sham. And if the authors were making money out of their work (other than whatever sort of reasonable paycheck they receive) they might have some traction. The simple and, for them, unpalatable truth is that the the money to be made is all flowing to the pro-gunz profiteers in manufacturing, sales and lobbying.
See if Weenie LaPierre and the rest of his team would be working ceaselessly (although I expect that they have a nice benefits package--courtesy of the idiots who give them donations and pay for memberships) to promote gunz if they were making $50K or so a year.
Typical empty headed rhetoric from the gunzloonz.
Anonymous, I really wish you would put a name on this truly amazing statement.
ReplyDeleteThe vast majority of Americans are gun owners.
"Ok, Jade, so why not use murder rates and violent crime rates as your measure then? Why are these ignored in favor of the “gun death” measurement?"
ReplyDeleteJadeGold is correct in using the cancer analogy.
Firearms were used in 12,632 homicides while cars were used in 30 homicides and cutting piercing injuries caused 2,600 homicides and "violent suffocation" caused 8,798 homicides during 2007. Firearms were used in 17,352 suicides and cars were used in 131 suicides during 2007. according to WISQARS. While you can get into the fact that the total deaths for that period were more for automobiles, that was due to accidents, not intent to kill.
I also find it interesting that there is no specific knife wound or strangulation information--instead WISQARS lists "violence-Related Cut/pierce Deaths" and "Violence-Related Suffocation Deaths".