The gun fanatics often challenge us to produce statistics to prove our claims. Well, these stats seem pretty convincing to me. You've got a number of bear attacks in which the attacked person had a gun. You can't now say, but if they were trained better, or if they knew what they were doing better. You have to take the whole survey which necessarily includes all types of gun owners.While bringing a gun to a bear fight may seem like a solid way to win, experts say the gun largely provides a false sense of security -- and would be similar to trying to shoot, and stop, a small car careening toward you at speeds of up to 35 mph.
It's not that firearms don't work, but many people can't load or aim them quickly enough in the panicky moments of a bear attack, according to a recent study by bear researchers at Utah's Brigham Young University.
"It's more about how you carry yourself than whether you carry a gun," said wildlife biologist Tom S. Smith, the study's lead author.
The report analyzed 269 armed human-bear encounters in Alaska between 1883 and 2009, and found that the use of guns made no statistical difference in the outcomes, and many people were mauled or killed anyway -- 151 human injuries and 172 bear fatalities.
Interestingly the statistics on bear vs. pepper spray are good.
The obvious conclusions extend far beyond the wilds of Alaska. Gun owners and concealed carry folks are mistaken in their thinking that the gun makes them safe. In all too many cases it does not and there are better alternatives.In an earlier study, Smith found that pepper spray worked for all but three of 156 people in 71 conflicts with bears.
Pepper spray also has a lasting advantage, Smith said.
"When you spray a bear, you are powerfully conditioning that animal to stay away from people," he said.
What's your opinion? Please leave a comment.
Pepper spray also has a lasting advantage, Smith said. "When you spray a bear, you are powerfully conditioning that animal to stay away from people," he said.
ReplyDeleteWhen you shoot a bear you also condition that animal to stay away from people. How is that any less of a "lasting advantage" than spraying?
What a stupid thing to say.
Stupid is as you say!
DeleteThe point is that people can't shoot straight when a grizzly is charging. If you can't hit the bear with the bullet you can't condition it very well, as you maintain.
DeleteJust because you can't hit the bear doesn't mean that others can't.
DeleteI think the intention of that "stupid" remark was to condition the bear WITHOUT killing it or sending it away wounded.
Delete"When you spray a bear, you are powerfully conditioning that animal to stay away from people,"
ReplyDeleteUntil they learn how to put on goggles.
The obvious conclusions extend far beyond the wilds of Alaska. Gun owners and concealed carry folks are mistaken in their thinking that the gun makes them safe.
Are you suggesting that if we spray violent criminals they will learn not to attack people?
Here's my suggestion, when in bear country, carry bear spray, when in criminal country, carry a firearm. Different tools for different jobs.
I could go for that Bill, except I'll bet we have a different definition of what constitutes criminal country.
DeleteThe link didn't work, but I've seen studies like this before. Contrary to your statement, training and awareness does make a difference. Robert Peterson, publisher and handgun hunter, once took a polar bear with a .44 Magnum revolver--the same model that Dirty Harry later carried. It can be done. Travelling in bear country is a skill.
ReplyDeleteBy the way, what's this nonsense about loading a gun when a bear is charging? Your side is always going on about how we carry loaded handguns in public. To quote Rooster Cogburn, "if it ain't loaded and cocked, it will not shoot."
Yes, the recently killed pastor's daughter might have had a chance, if she'd been armed, when that security guard shot through the church closet door, because he thought the weapon was unloaded. Or not. The guard was trained in firearms use.
Delete"Robert Peterson, publisher and handgun hunter, once took a polar bear with a .44 Magnum revolver--the same model that Dirty Harry later carried. It can be done. Travelling in bear country is a skill."
But bear-related death statistics show that many think they have that skill, until it's actually required. One guy bringing down a bear with a lucky shot doesn't prove anything, about pistol hunting for bears.
Peterson didn't get one lucky shot. He used five shots to kill the bear, and all were well placed. Read up on the story, why don't you?
DeleteBy the way, what does the incident in the church have to do with this subject? Are you claiming that no one can use a firearm correctly, or is it that you can't, so you project your inadequacy onto others?
DeleteFrom personal up close experience...I spent a lot of time in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan backpacking in the early 70's. I had some very interesting encounters with bears. We would take our packs and hang them from tree limbs, but after a few bad experiences with bears using their extreme intelligence and ability to solve problems, we realized that this was another learning experience for the bears. I was hiking up at Presque Isle River State Park, in the Iron Mountains during the peak of bear hunting season.
ReplyDeleteWe lost almost everything we had edible one night due to a group of bears who ate our packs while I was swimming in the river. I ended up shivering on the other side of the river...after retrieving some matches and a towel...by the way, throwing rocks at the bears and yelling is not a good idea!
So I built a big fire and listened to the bears eating our packs while I sat shivering in the dark by the huge fire we built, wrapped in my Annette Funicello Beach Party towel...after a while the bears came down to the river, a few yards from us in the pitch darkness, drank their fill and then started to belch and fart...I suppose it was the premix pancake mix expanding in their guts...So the next morning, I assessed the damage...for the three day hike out, we had some dried Japanese shrimp, instant soup mix, instant coffee and thank goodness, 2 flasks filled with 151 proof rum.
We met other backpackers who told us similar tales...of being followed by bears in broad day light and how the the only way they escaped was to drop their packs and let the bears get their fill of peanut butter. We got back to the main camping area which was full of hunters. None of the hunters had seen one damn bear. There are two bears for every person in that part of the UP....the evening entertainment is to go to the local dump, sit in your car and watch the bears....better than the drive in theater.
So, the bears knew that hunters smelled like chemicals and back packers smelled like peanut butter.
My solution? I started to carry jars with moth balls in netting. When I would get to a camping area, I took the little mothball bags out and hung them from the trees around us. It worked like a charm. I never saw another bear gain.
Gee, Greg, I don't know what the point of my story is, please don't bruise the large melon you have implanted on your shoulders trying to figure it out.
I think the point of my story is that bears are always smarter than your average back packer or hunter and if you don't carry moth crystals, they will always get your pik-a-nick basket....and there ain't nuthin Ranger Smith can do about it. Right Boo Boo?
Mothballs--that was useful information. The rest of your comment tells me more about you than anything else.
DeleteGreat story Microdot. What a life you've had.
DeleteYou do know what "microdot" is, right?
DeleteYes, I'm 59 years old.
DeleteI was thinking that microdot referred to the technique used in the espionage business of printing information in a tiny dot, but now I see that there's also a drug meaning. Oy, what a world.
DeleteThat's your age, Greg, you young'un you.
DeleteOr I'm such a law-abiding, upstanding citizen. . . ;)
Delete"When you shoot a bear you also condition that animal to stay away from people."
ReplyDeleteYes - kill anythig that annoys you. More stupidity.
Right Boo Boo? Uhhh....Right, Yogi!
ReplyDeleteNot only does the pepper spray work better, but if the bear does die, you've already given it some nice jalapeno flavoring for when you cook it up into fajitas.
ReplyDeleteActually, it depends on the bear. The smaller black bear is almost totally vegetarian, and less aggressive. If you aren't hunting, it will avoid you if you alert it to your presence and don't surprise it. A number of campers and hikers sew small bells to their clothes for this reason.
ReplyDeleteThe larger brown bear can be aggressive, but will be turned aside with pepper spray.
The grizzly, on the other hand, can be very aggressive, and their droppings tend to be full of small bells and smell like pepper spray.
I found the best firearm to take in bear country is a .22. Why, in fact, last time out with my cousin Earl, we came across a mean Grizzly bear. I popped a cap into Earl's knee and only had to stroll away.
ReplyDeleteCracked me up!!!! Like the buddy system while diving around sharks. Thanks for the light hearted response
DeleteThe other joke on the subject is that you should carry whatever gun you like, but take off the front sight. That way, it'll hurt less when the bear shoves it up your ass.
DeleteMyeh, some people just should stay indoors.
Good bear jokes. I'll bet you guys have a million of them.
DeleteWhere the hell is jadegold???
ReplyDeleteDid you ban him from blogging at your site?
No one is banned, especially not a co-blogger.
DeleteI'm glad you miss him.
I did enjoy reading his attempt at a smackdown on Dog Gone. It's interesting that he used the same language about her decision to own a gun as she used against me.
Delete"Good bear jokes. I'll bet you guys have a million of them."
ReplyDeleteWe also have stories about using a gun to defend ourselves against bear attacks.
Not exactly anything some fucktard in Italy needs to worry about, huh?
I don't have any of the log-in accounts so I'm posting under the Anonymous listing. However, My real name is George R. O'Connor and I'm an attorney who has had more than a few bear encounters from hiking, climbing and fly-fishing throughout the Rockies and on the Kenai Peninsula in Alaska.
ReplyDeleteHanging food suspended from the middle of a long rope stretched (from two trees) more than 20' above the ground is an effective mechanism to protect your provisions. You must keep your campsite food-free (burn any leftovers not worth keeping (say, fish bones and heads) and wash your mess kits and hang them up near the food on that rope).
I carry both Bear Spray and a stainless Ruger .44 revolver when fly fishing. I've never had to use either, thus far.
Bear Spray effectively shuts down the bear's sensory mechanisms - they can't see or smell if they receive an effective dose. My problem with Bear Spray is in the direction of the prevailing wind. If the Bear is downwind - great - but if the wind is in your face (you are upwind from the bear) then Bear Spray is going to blow back onto you.
AK's DNR recommends a 12 gauge, marine grade, pump action shotgun, loaded with magnum solid slug shells with the first shot aimed at a bear's shoulder to limit its mobility and the rest of the slugs directed at the center-of-mass.
I've encountered many, many bears, both brown and grizzly, and I retreat, slowly, because the bears belong there and I'm the one who put myself into their environment. They are top-of-the-foodchain-predators and must always be respected and preserved.
All in all, the best bear defense comes from that object behind your eyes and between your ears.
being that said spray is probably made in China and may end up only containing melamine or water and also coupled with George's comment above methinks Carrying my S&W Governor with progressively formidable ammo along with said spray is in order. Not one mention of spray failure; I'm sure it happens; I have bought bug spray that failed to spray and it had nothing to do with the NRA.
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