Wednesday, March 14, 2012

Guns on Campus in Florida


A teacher fired from a private school in Florida on Tuesday returned to the campus with a gun hidden in a guitar case and shot the headmistress to death before committing suicide while school was in session.



This story, although just one example, illustrates why allowing guns on campuses is a bad idea.

What's your opinion? Please leave a comment.

24 comments:

  1. I think this is a better example of why allowing killers on campus is a worse idea.

    Aren't schools in FL already gun free? I know they don't have campus carry.

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  2. "This story, although just one example, illustrates why allowing guns on campuses is a bad idea."

    So your example of why we need to ban guns on campus is taken from a place where guns are banned on campus. Gun control FAIL.

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  3. Mikeb, you just offered proof for my point: Murderers will carry their guns, regardless of the law. Come on, you're smarter than this, no?

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  4. This shows beyond any doubt that gun bans are totally ineffective against criminals.

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    1. Yes, I agree, but it also shows something else. So-called law abiding citizens ore too often walking time bombs. Making it easier for them to carry guns is wrong.

      Laws prohibiting guns in certain places will be obeyed by these walking time bombs. They won't have such quick access to their gun when they snap. Yes, some of them will go out to the car or go home and come back with a gun, but for others that will be just the cooling off period they need to stay law abiding in spite of a rageful meltdown.

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    2. Laws prohibiting guns in certain places will be obeyed by these walking time bombs.
      Obviously not.

      Yes, some of them will go out to the car or go home and come back with a gun...
      So, shouldn't the potential victim be prepared to defend herself?

      but for others that will be just the cooling off period they need to stay law abiding in spite of a rageful meltdown.

      Seriously, has there been a study on this recently? I know there was a study on the 'cooling off' period regarding California's new gun control laws in the 80s. The results of the study indicated that 'cooling off' laws weren't effective at reducing violent crime.

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    3. Bill, you've got a convenient arguing style. You deny obvious things or, if you dont think you can get away with that, you demand stats where you know none exist.

      Try using your head and being honest about it.

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    4. MikeB, first of all, what are your data sources establishing that concealed carry license holders are "walking time bombs"?

      Actual data tells us otherwise. The violence policy center was kind enough to list all known documented cases where concealed carry license holders "snapped" and killed someone. Since 2007, on average about 1 concealed carry license holder per state "snaps" and murders someone every year. And we can look at the State of Utah where any license holder can carry onto any public university or even schools. There is not a single instance of a concealed carry license holder breaking any laws with their handguns.

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    5. Cap'n, the actual data is skewed for several reasons. The reporting is incomplete. It's like "90% of the TRACED guns come from the States."

      Also, in many cases an offender is busted but no one checks to see if he has a carry license.

      So, there are "walking time bombs" it's just a question of how many.

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  5. If only we could make murder/suicides more illegal. Oh wait guns are banned on campus. Maybe another law would have changed her mind from the whole murder suicide thing.

    Or, and this is just a crazy thought, maybe the nonmurderous teachers and staff should have been armed. If I were that headmistress I sure would have liked a good handgun. And who knows? Maybe if the shooter knew that other people in the building had guns he would have chosen a different place to end his life without anyoneelse's.

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  6. Thanks, TF for the comment. Please accept my answer to Greg as an answer to your nonsensical ideas too.

    Aren't you guys tired of that stupid "make murder more illegal" joke?

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    1. You keep thinking that we could deny guns to people who want them. We can't deny illegal drugs to people. Why do you think that guns are any different?

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    2. Well, we could if we wanted to. And besides, $100 worth of coke is more easily concealable than a $100 gun.

      So, yeah, we could.

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    3. Don't know much about concealment, do you? I walk around with much more than $100 of gun concealed on my person without anyone noticing. I used to live near the city library, so I'd walk to it from my apartment. The path took me past a police station. Not once did an officer even take a second look at me. These days, given all the gadgets that people wear on their belts, it's less and less obvious what's under someone's shirt.

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    4. MikeB, I really don't know much about the concealability of $100 of coke. With your knowledge of the subject maybe you could educate us a little bit.

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  7. Sorry I didn't intend to joke about the matter of a murder suicide. I more intended it as a quick way of making a point.
    You seem to accept the fact that this is a gun ban that didn't work and take this tragedy as an exception to the rule. A rule that has been broken with every single other school and all but one mass shooting in U.S. history (which was perpetrated by someone unlawfully carrying anyways).
    This is why I say it is time to change the law that creates victims. If teachers and administraters weren't forced into being the victim due to their obedience of the law, not only could school shootings end faster than police could arrive, but they probably wouldn't happen at all. There is a reason people go to schools rather than police stations when they want to kill people.

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  8. Those laws don't "create victims." They prevent countless additional incidents from happening.

    Guns at the workplace are the same thing. The disgruntled employee shooting up the joint would be a much more common occurance if it weren't for those gun free zones.

    In order to deny that logic, you focus on the incredibly tiny number of mass school shootings.

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    1. Or could it be that people are better than you think them to be? A sign that bans guns only stops those of us who abide by the law. A would-be murderer doesn't care about the law. What logic are you talking about?

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    2. "The disgruntled employee shooting up the joint would be a much more common occurance if it weren't for those gun free zones."

      Pure conjecture. Please point us to some evidence of your assertion. Anything even remotely close would do.

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    3. Mikeb - how many street gun battles have been fought between two or more legal CCW permit holders in states that allow for concealed carry in public? Remember - you can't count the ones that involved an illegal carrier such as a felon since those were already illegal to begin with.

      Why would schools, offices, hospitals, etc be any different?

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    4. http://dianedimond.net/packing-heat-at-college/#more-3840
      If you don't want to bother yourself with reading an entire news article you can skip to the last paragraph about Colorado schools and Utah schools. No blood in the hallways their. But funny thing to notice is that crime has gone down at CSU.

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    5. Sure TF, an article more than a year old which repeats all the old cliched arguments we've heard ad nauseum.

      The obvious rejoinder to much of that nonsense is that guns are not the only factor in violent crime. Guns and guns and gun availability is only a part. Kids brought up in the Mormon culture who become adults with guns are going to do a lot less damage than kids brought up in Newark NJ.

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    6. Because New Jersey's gun laws are doing wonders for their violent crime rates.
      The fact the article is a year old does nothing to discredit it unless you can find a fact in there that is no longer true. Have they had any gun problems since then?
      And you refuse to look at the fact that guns are the best self defense tool when avoidance doesn't work. When you send your daughter to college would you rather tell her "try not to get raped" and hope her karate lessons paid off or train her with a gun and let her carry a two pound reminder to stay aware and have the ability to deter or destroy her attacker

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    7. MikeB sure makes good points for the pro-gun rights side. First he acknowledges that there are zero instances of concealed carry licensees in Utah schools and colleges using their handguns illegally. (Thus all the dire predictions that young adults were not trustworthy were false.) Then he tries to poo-poo that fact making an unsubstantiated claim that most of the licensees in Utah are Mormons and their upbringing is the reason that they are not running around shooting up the schools and universities.

      What MikeB just did is make a case that it isn't guns that cause violent crime, it is raising children with certain religious values. Unfortunately MikeB also failed to address the colleges and universities in Colorado where there are also zero instances of concealed carry licensees using their handguns to commit crimes on campuses. And he cannot explain that away with a Mormon upbringing. The last time I was in Colorado, I didn't see a Mormon majority.

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