A gun safety class at Utah Valley University certainly had a fresh situation to discuss Monday night.
police academy training cadets on their way to the class were involved
in an accidental shooting, leaving one of the cadets with
According to Melinda Colton, UVU
spokeswoman, the incident occurred at approximately 5:20 p.m. It was
reported there had been an accidental discharge of a firearm at the
Education building on the north end of the campus.
UVU police turned over the investigation to the Orem Police Department.
to Lt. Craig Martinez with Orem police, one of the cadets was showing
off a new handgun to another cadet. The handgun did not have a clip in
it, and the cadet holding the gun was taking it apart.
"The trigger has to be pressed to take the gun apart," Martinez said. "The cadet didn't know there was a round in the gun."
bullet grazed the other cadet's chest. The injured cadet was treated by
fellow cadets until medical personnel arrived on the scene.
The cadet is scheduled to undergo minor surgery today at a local hospital.
Perhaps they should have taken an NRA safety class first since they start with rule one and proceed from there. The law enforcement firearms classes I took way back used in-house weapons which worked to avoid this from happening.ReplyDelete
This though appears to be a class solely for prospective police officers,
"Gun safety was on the lesson plan Monday in the firearms class at the satellite police academy at Utah Valley University in Orem.
And cadets got a real-life example when one of them accidentally fired a bullet from his gun and slightly injured a friend in the class, Orem police said.
Lt. Craig Martinez said the students were told to bring in their guns with no ammunition in them. He said one cadet thought his weapon was not loaded because there was no magazine in it so he pulled the trigger to take it apart."
NRA safety classes are a joke for a number of reasons. First, nobody ever fails. Second, the instructors need not demonstrate any proficiency in order to become an instructor. To become an instructor, all one needs is money and a little time. And the time aspect can be negotiated. Further, there is no oversight of instructors or periodic retraining.ReplyDelete
Jade, I again thank you for encouraging me to find out new things. I've never attended an NRA course, though I'm sorely tempted now in order to start helping other people get their carry permits and to getting people involved in the shooting sports.Delete
I went to the NRA website and there actually seems to be a pre-course qualification test which includes hands on demonstration of proper gun handling and a test of marksmanship. Its sort of a lengthy document, but here's the link,
The latest revision seems to be in 2010. As for your assertion that nobody ever fails, is it possible that they use a training method similar to the military where if someone doesn't meet the standards they receive additional individual training/coaching until they can pass?
I'll keep looking into the oversight issue because that is something that should be in there to insure quality of training. Maybe I'll see about taking a class just to find out.
what does this story have to do with the NRA Jade?Delete
I see you were responding to SSDelete
C'mon,ss, son't you get Jadegold's point? Training, whether it's the NRA course, the qualifications to become an NRA instructor or even the training requiremed for getting a concealed carry permit, is generally inadequate.Delete
It's a simple point.
"C'mon,ss, son't you get Jadegold's point?"Delete
The point I got was that for some reason I accepted Jade's assertion regarding NRA instructor training and now it turns out that the claim isn't accurate. Ding on me for accepting it for so long since this assertion has been repeated on this blog many times.
I've even see periodic training requirements mentioned on an instructor's website, though there wasn't enough detail for me to be comfortable citing it here, so I'm going to look into becoming an instructor to find out for sure. I will throw in the caveat that I wont try the bribery technique of getting certified that Jade claims to be available.
As for the level of training required for a carry permit, that is a decision for each state. I honestly haven't looking into any correlation regarding amount of training and misuse of firearms. I do know that the Minnesota DNR has claimed that their hunter safety courses have led to a long term decline in hunting accidents, but its hard to say for sure.
It's inadequate, yes or no?Delete
"It's inadequate, yes or no?"Delete
Short answer is no Mike. While I personally enjoy firearms training in all of its aspects and enjoy teaching others, its a personal responsibility.
In fact, when I've suggested teaching gun safety in the schools as a public safety issue, and when we've discussed states passing legislation encouraging such training, you have in the past suggested that living in a gun friendly state somehow results in this knowledge being imparted.
And on one occasion you seem to suggest that gun safety training doesn't work. Before Sandra went of the rails, she actually made a good suggestion,
"Teach kids firearm safety."
And you replied with,
"Most gun-owning parents provide plenty of training/warnings/safety education for this kiddies, yet we still have way too many problems. It doesn't work."
So you seem to suggest that while kids get plenty of training from parents, the training doesn't work. That seems contradictory.
So the question is, does it work? If so, then why not teach it to everyone? Like all of our other rights.
Short answer is no? Are you kidding? Did you understand the question? We were talking about whether or not the mandatory training for NRA instructors and for concealed carry guys is adequate. Answering no to that puts you right in the same category as Kurt and TS. Maybe I have been giving you too much credit.Delete
"We were talking about whether or not the mandatory training for NRA instructors and for concealed carry guys is adequate."Delete
Well, Jade made a claim that there are no tests for proficiency to be an instructor. I found an NRA document of a requirement to demonstrate proficiency before you can take the class. I think that's called a prerequisite.
As for Jade's claim that no one ever fails, I asked what I thought was a reasonable question regarding a possible reason why no one ever fails and got no response. The instructional technique is quite common in the military.
As for training for getting a carry permit, I found my training quite adequate, especially compared to the first time I held a carry permit. The first time, back in Minnesota's may-issue permit days, there wasn't any required training or testing. I just needed to show an adequate need, which at the time was being employed in the security field.
The training I received for my current carry permit centered mainly on the law itself and the proper and lawful use of deadly force. There was also a requirement to demonstrate marksmanship and safe handling of a firearm.
I can't believe ANYBODY EVER forgets there's one in the chamber, let alone people who have received some training. This is a definite one-strike-you're-out offense. If you're so stupid and reckless to forget there might be a round in the chamber, you have proven that you're incapable of safely handling guns.ReplyDelete
"I can't believe ANYBODY EVER forgets there's one in the chamber, let alone people who have received some training. This is a definite one-strike-you're-out offense."Delete
Then all you have to do is legislate a law that makes negligent discharges a felony. Your standard isn't really workable in real life Mike. I've mentioned this before. For example, can you imagine it being applied in the military? Especially in a country where there's a draft? The US Army's response to a negligent discharge is non-judicial punishment if warranted and remedial training.
This of course is in addition to any charges stemming from damage to property of people.
I CAN see it working in the military. When I went to Parris Island, only one half of us graduated. That's 50% who were drummed out, often for offenses far lighter than a negligent discharge. There's absolutely no reason we can't take this behavior as seriously as we should.Delete
What does "perfect record no more" mean?ReplyDelete
Is that one of those pretend questions that Kurt loves to use?Delete
You do remember how the pro-gun crowd often boasted that Utah has never ever had a problem with its guns on campus policy, don't you? I never really believed it, but now there's at least this one story to refute it.
No, it wasn't a pretend question. I didn't see how you would equate a police training class with the "guns on campus" issue because I figured you knew that every university gun ban doesn't apply to police.Delete
"You do remember how the pro-gun crowd often boasted that Utah has never ever had a problem with its guns on campus policy, don't you?"Delete
Mike, this negligent discharge occurred in a law enforcement training academy which happens to be located on the grounds of a university. Something routinely permitted in states without laws allowing students to carry on campus. Even the school I attended recently had such a law enforcement program.
While you can bill it as a negligent discharge by law enforcement, it really doesn't have any linkage to campus carry. I would be curious as to the level of supervision in the class. It being a gun safety class would suggest that some students wouldn't be well versed in firearms and the instructor should have set up control measures for those bringing arms into class to insure they are indeed unloaded.
So, what are you saying? The Utah Campuses are still enjoying a perfect record?Delete
After commenting above, I remembered the Utah toilet shooter. I'd bet there have been others too.
I didn't think there was a "perfect record". More importantly, maintaining a collective "perfect record" should never be a qualification for exercising individual rights. Also, I'm pretty such Utah lost it's perfect record of no violent crimes about 10 minutes after becoming a state.Delete
It's never been an "individual right" to carry a gun anywhere and everywhere.Delete