Sunday, March 20, 2011

A Compelling Argument for Guns on Campus

A woman sexually assaulted in a campus parking garage by a convicted killer and rapist told state lawmakers Friday that she could have defended herself if she were allowed to carry a concealed weapon at the University of Nevada, Reno.

"I would have at some point during my rape been able to stop James Biela," Amanda Collins told the Senate Committee on Government Affairs during emotional testimony.

Collins testified in favor of a bill sponsored by Sen. John Lee, D-North Las Vegas. The bill would remove a requirement that people who hold a concealed weapons permit obtain permission from a college or university president to carry a gun on campus.
It's certainly hard to argue with that. But, isn't using the emotional appeal what gun control folks are supposed to be doing? It's funny how the more you read these stories the more you see the hypocritical double standard employed by the gun rights movement.

Getting beyond the emotional appeal of this woman's testimony, we find ourselves back with the same old arguments. Would guns on campus do more good than harm?

My questions run something like this:

1. Aren't forced rapes, like what happened in the parking garage in this case, only a tiny percentage of the violence done to women, most of which is done by acquaintances?

2. Wouldn't allowing guns on campuses, which might be useful in extremely rare incidents, also increase the numbers of gun-theft, negligent discharges and blatant misuse?

3. Wouldn't the presence of guns impede open dialogue between student and teacher which is often heated and passionate?

For me the answer is clear and no emotional appeal, however tragic, can change it. Guns are bad news for college campuses.

What's your opinion? Please leave a comment.


  1. Mikeb30200:

    Guns on campus would:

    1.) Make it much easier for students to convince teachers that a wolf HAD eaten their homework and that, without the gun, they would have been eaten as well.

    D.) Obviate the need for RA's in student dormitories. Remember, an armed dorm filled with drunk, pissed off and hormonally crazed studets IS a polite dorm.

    IIa.) Why should only the campus cops be able to maintain order?

    4.) Shut up, that's why!

  2. I think I posted here earlier that this example is a perfect use of concealed carry???
    Does anyone really know the TRUE amount of rapes that occur, ever? How many woman do not come forward and live with their pain?

    I would prefer that any rapist be shot multiple times in various places starting with his groin.
    Take a 100 pound woman, maybe 5'1" and 110? Take any 5'8" guy, who is stronger? a 3 pound gun makes them weigh the same.

  3. Darn, I wish I read your questions.

    2) Obviously yes, no guns, zero, 1 gun a possibility.
    3) No, plain and simple. Do you really think I don't get into arguments when I carry? But is my life in danger? No. Easy to separate.
    I would worry about the college professor more than the student! (Just kidding on the last)

  4. demo, you assume this to be all about the students? The teachers, maintenance workers and other legal law abiding folks can carry now, too!!

    Dorms only house Freshman and Sophomores, which as a general rule are 18-19, 19-20. So not able to get a carry permit.

    But for my wife, who went back to school at night and had to park in a dark lot? I loved that she could have defended herself if needed.

  5. March 19, 2011
    Rape rattles school
    Susquehanna students worried after 4th assault in five years

    By Francis Scarcella The Daily Item The Daily Item Sat Mar 19, 2011, 11:24 PM EDT

    — SELINSGROVE — Heightened concern and awareness were rampant on the Susquehanna University campus Saturday, one day after a woman reported she had been raped on campus.

    Selinsgrove police said late Friday that a 23-year-old was sexually assaulted on a campus sidewalk after being approached from behind and thrown to the ground in the early morning hours.

    “I have been here for four years,” said Emily Martin, of Maine, “and this was a wake-up call. I always walked home alone, but now I’m starting to get rides.”

    Friday’s sexual assault was the fourth in five years on campus.

  6. # Of the college woman who are raped, only 25% describe it as rape.
    # Of the college women who are raped, only 10% report the rape.
    # College women are most vulnerable to rape during the first few weeks of the freshman and sophomore years.

    Do you have any daughters, Mike?
    I have 4 sons!

  7. Most every victim feels he or she could have changed the outcome; most are wrong.

  8. "Dorms only house Freshman and Sophomores, which as a general rule are 18-19, 19-20. So not able to get a carry permit."


    So, this:

    "1. Possession (internal or external) or consumption of alcoholic beverages in and around the residence halls is permitted only by residents and their guests 21 years of age or older, in student rooms, with doors closed, and with no minors present. If anyone in the room is under 21, then everyone present is in violation of policy, regardless of who has or has not been drinking. Excessive consumption of alcohol is prohibited in all situations, regardless of the age of the person(s) involved.
    2. Alcohol may not be kept in room or suite areas, including refrigerators, if any room resident or suite member is under 21. Individuals who are not residents may not bring alcoholic beverages into the hall regardless of their age."

    from the UNReno student handbook is obviously a lie?

  9. Dannytheman, Thanks for you comments. I think young women are in less danger of being forcibly raped than they would be of experiencing a gun mishap if they carried. That's a bad deal.

  10. So you tell them what, Mike?

    Open your legs, King Mike wouldn't let you stop this violation?

    THEY should be free to choose!

    OK, we are done!

  11. AW, GEEZ:

    Dannythegunzman left, I'm fucking crushed.

    Too bad, I was hoping for him to bring back the newest copy of the UNReno student handbook that says nobody but freshmen and sophomores are allowed to live in dorms. I guess I can live without that pleasure.

  12. Thinking back to my college days, and knowing some rape victims, I can still say with great clarity that gun possession would still be a bad choice. While there might be a handful of successful defensive uses, the drawback of young, immature, and sometimes inebriatate youth possessing guns is obvious. I can think of plenty of instances from my college days in gun-crazy Arkansas that prove my point.

    Furthermore, when the potential rape victim pulls out a firearm, she is already feeling at risk of being physically overcome. The chance that the attacker will be able to wrench the firearm from her is high. In an effort to defend herself, that rape might very well turn into a homicide.

  13. OK, let's say there are 10 attempted rapes by strangers of women carrying guns.

    1. she pulls the gun in time and saves herself, with or without killing the rapist.

    7. it makes no difference, the assailant disarms her before raping her.

    2. it makes a big difference, he disarms her and kills her with her own gun, with or without raping her first.

    Before you demand proof and evidence, I'll tell you I'm just guessing. I don't think there is reliable data upon which to decide these percentages.

    How do you think they would go? What percentages would you assign to the three categories?

  14. "I think young women are in less danger of being forcibly raped than they would be of experiencing a gun mishap if they carried. That's a bad deal."

    I've yet to read of a woman hurt by a "gun mishap". I have read of women without guns who were raped and of women with guns who weren't raped because they had a gun.

    Can you cite some examples of women being hurt by their own gun?

  15. "But, isn't using the emotional appeal what gun control folks are supposed to be doing?"

    That's not an emotional appeal. It's a practical one. Suggesting that people, including people in college, keep a fire extinguisher in their living quarters and in their vehicles because some people die from fires is not an emotional appeal.

    How many more rapes are you willing to endorse before you say your female peasants can carry arms? I'm guessing all of them, there's never too much rape for King Mike.

  16. Anon misses the obvious point that, try as one might, a fire extinguisher can't be used to start a fire.

    Therein lies the difference.

    Given the fact some 20% of wounded/killed police officers are shot with their own guns, it's not a reach to understand victims of crime may well have their weapons used against them.

    The fairy tale belief of Anon is that a woman is going to have plenty of time and warning that a violent attack is coming. Thus, she will have oodles of time to produce her firearm and prevent/deter such an attack. Reality is very, very different.

  17. Anonymous said, "I've yet to read of a woman hurt by a "gun mishap". I have read of women without guns who were raped and of women with guns who weren't raped because they had a gun."

    I say, of course you have. And you never read about a DGU you didn't like.

    How about Meleanie Hain? Remember her? I know whe wasn't raped and murdered by a stranger, but she sure is a good example of an armed woman whose gun did her absolutely no good whatever.

  18. Mike - I read up on Melanie's story and I don't see how that would count as a gun mishap for her. Her husband came up and shot her in cold blood with a different gun. Melanie's gun was not on her at the time. Maybe if it was, her husband would have thought twice about trying to shoot her.

  19. Of course you're right, Jim. The similarity I was aiming at was that owning a gun or carrying one does not protect against rape or murder in most cases.