The recent record of inaction in the halls of Congress doesn’t show it, but new poll found Americans are, in fact, willing to support legislative actions to stop gun violence.
The survey released late Tuesday by United Technologies/National Journal Congressional Connection found that 62% of Americans would back a lifetime ban on gun sales for people with a police rap sheet or background of violence. About 32% are against that kind of proposal.
In theory, such a law would have applied to someone like Aaron Alexis, the gunman who killed 12 in shooting rampage last week at the Washington Navy Yard. The 34-year-old U.S. Navy veteran had a history of run-ins with the law and gun violence.
Mike,
ReplyDeleteAlexis being able to purchase a firearm after passing a background check can be laid squarely on the prosecutors where he used his firearm improperly previously. Their refusal to prosecute. I'm assuming when the term police rap sheet that means losing your rights without due process. That you just need to be on someone's naughty list.
Not if they took my advice and used the "may issue" system for gun licenses.
DeleteIt would be so much easier for the police if they got to decide about all of our rights, but I'm not going along with that kind of system.
DeleteToo bad. Rights aren't subject to majority opinion. But merely being arrested isn't enough. Lots of people get arrested in error or due to busybody officers. A person onvicted of a crime of violence, though, is a prohibited person, so this shows how little polls are worth.
ReplyDeleteThe fake professor hates police and facts. The bigger the gun the bigger he THINKS his penis is. It's all part of his delusion
DeleteSo now we're not only talking about violent misdemeanors, but bans for anyone with a record. Disorderly conduct arrest for drunkenly shooting the bird at a cop back in college--banned for life. Arrested on charges of aggravated assault which were dropped because the person bringing charges was proved to be making it all up--too bad, banned for life. Arrested on drug charges which are dropped when it turns out the suspicious substance wasn't drugs--banned for life; tough luck.
ReplyDeleteThis is the extremely fair system our benevolent gun controllers want, eh?
It takes CONVICITIONS not just entries in a police record to restrict rights. The problem is that Aaron was never convicted. If he had, he would not have been able to legally purchase any firearm. Entries are notes in which could be used in courts to build a case against a person charged and has his day in court. If the case never goes to court, those entries are meaningless and have no force of law. Most LEO agencies will dump those entries after a certain amount of time anyway if no other actions have been taken.
ReplyDeleteSo the background check law didn't fail. The police agencies. court systems and prosecutors failed in their jobs.
Texas,
DeleteYou're right on all points except the LE Agencies dumping dismissed arrests. Some may do it, but I have yet to encounter one that purges them with any regularity. Instead, I keep finding ones that keep records of arrests that they later found were based on lies and never even referred to prosecutors.
All three of the examples I gave above were real life examples I've seen. The second and third, which were 20+ year old felony arrests, caused a NICS problem until we dug out the archived information that showed the truth of the matter. The records showing details and the dispositions were stored on paper in archives, but the arrests themselves had been recorded into the latest databases, causing the improper denials.
Sorry, I didn't mean to imply dismissed arrests but rather call complaints in which no arrests were made. Those are called incident entries, at least here anyway. After a given amount of time and no further entries, the record is dumped. Most of the reasons of the dumping is because of bogus or malicious complaints with no truth. An actual arrest record never goes away even with charges dropped.
DeleteIf the person keeps getting complaints against him and eventually gets arrested for something then all the incident complaints follow him as well for further investigation.
I should also add that an applicant for a CHL in Texas must include any arrest you have for a class B misdemeanor or higher, whether or not you were found not guilty or charges dropped have to be included with a explanation of them. Adjudicated convictions at class B misdemeanors or higher don't qualify as a dismissal as a conviction was rendered.
DeleteTexas background check as well as a NICS checks must pass before you get approved.
There are many reasons why arrests don't turn into felony convictions. As you mentioned, in some cases, the charges were unfounded. But in others, there are plea bargains, technicalities, lost witnesses, and many other possible explanations. That's why we need a "may issue" system for gun purchases.
DeleteYou say we need that, Mikeb, but there are those pesky things called the Constitution and U.S. law getting in your way.
DeleteMike, even a may issue system still uses the NICS check and likely their own state check. The may issue policy by a state or counties that use it, is determining an individual need instead. With Aarons clearances the state may well have issued the purchase anyway even with a may issue policy. But the may issue VS shall issue only concerns permits. Most states, nearly all, don't require a permit to purchase. So the may issue VS shall issue is moot.
DeleteIts called a Bill of Rights, not a Bill of Needs. The Right to keep and bear. The carry permitting system in a few states restrict that right. But owning them is a different issue.
Texas,
DeleteThanks for the info on how the police operate there, and how the CHL process works. The bogus and malicious complaints are a real problem--especially when they lead to arrests and charges. The problems I've seen have resulted from either laziness in entering dispositions that should have been entered into records and expungements that didn't get processed fully, or from the system somehow dropping the ball on these things.
Gets hard to show that a case was dismissed when the court shreds the file after expunging the records but the police don't update things.
As for the Texas system, you don't have a process for submitting that information, and if the cops followed through and noted that charges were dismissed then they don't ask you about it. However, if there is a problem, they send you a letter saying your application is on hold--please get us information on the disposition of these arrests.
Mike,
Yes, those things can happen, and I see why you want may issue for those cases. It's the same logic I had to overcome regarding excluding evidence: How could we let this guy go free just because a cop broke the rules?
We do this throughout our system to prevent abuses. Maybe we go too far and we need to adjust things in some ways, but we need to be careful. Giving complete discretion to the police is a worse idea than the current system just as allowing any evidence, however obtained.
There are plenty of corrupt cops and corrupt sheriffs out there (corrupt judges too). I know several people who are wrongfully on the bad side of different police departments. Some are in this position simply because they're not the in crown in their tiny, corrupt county; others are because one relative ran afoul of the law, and the police now have determined that all relatives of that person are primary suspects to be harassed with goofy entrapment schemes and trumped up charges.
Corruption is a weed that must be constantly sought out and fought against. Giving it discretionary power over anything is like piling manure on it.
Come to think of it Mike, we already have a "may issue" for gun purchases. Its called the NICS check.
DeleteIf he didn't pass that, I bet he could have convinced an individual to sell him a personally owned gun, after all he has a federal clearance. Beyond that, theft.
Of course if he couldn't pass the NICS check, his clearance would have been revoked. Or should have been anyway.
In the end, a determined person who wishes to wreak this kind of havoc would find a way. No law what so ever would have stopped him . None, nada, zip. The only thing that would have stopped him is good guys with guns, the more the better.
Tennessean, there is an appeals process if you have been wrongly denied in Texas. A judge may be employed in the appeals process to make a determination of the incorrect record keeping and order the correction. Its best to keep ALL paperwork if you are ever involved in a legal confrontation. I have never had to experience this aspect so I am not sure about time or cost, but I do keep up with all current laws and changes in law. If a judge does find that you have been wrongly denied then the judge will order the issue of the CHL. As it is, if you can legally purchase a new gun in Texas, you will pass the requirements for the Texas CHL.
DeleteWe have an appeals process too, though I've not had to use it. The folks that issue and revoke our carry permits are actually surprisingly helpful and friendly. I have run into red tape in getting the proper papers when people didn't perpetually store them as you so wisely recommended, but the Tennessee folks actually helped clear that up--when we faxed them what we had and told them we were still working through red tape, they called in a favor and got the information in a day or two. Can't beat that for service.
Delete