Monday, June 4, 2012

Another Good Clean DGU

 Local news reports with video

A citizen with a gun stopped a knife wielding man as he began stabbing people Thursday evening at the downtown Salt Lake City Smith's store.

Police say the suspect purchased a knife inside the store and then turned it into a weapon. Smith's employee Dorothy Espinoza says, "He pulled it out and stood outside the Smiths in the foyer. And just started stabbing people and yelling you killed my people. You killed my people."

Espinoza says, the knife wielding man seriously injured two people. "There is blood all over. One got stabbed in the stomach and got stabbed in the head and held his hands and got stabbed all over the arms."

Then, before the suspect could find another victim - a citizen with a gun stopped the madness. "A guy pulled gun on him and told him to drop his weapon or he would shoot him. So, he dropped his weapon and the people from Smith's grabbed him."
You have to really keep your eyes open for these stories, but there out there. I especially like the ones in which the good guy acts like a good guy and doesn't kill anyone. In those cases there's practically no question of right and wrong.

Those of us who read gun blogs and gun news every day, and are open-minded about it, see that the ratio between legitimate DGUs and the misuse of firearms is about 1 to 100, maybe more.

The story about 2.5 million DGUs a year, and the slogan that "more guns equals less crime" are some of the most bizarre arguments of the pro-gun propaganda machine. One only needs to read the news to see that.

What's your opinion?  please leave a comment.


  1. Not every story gets into the news, and we've seen that you're not much good at data analysis.

    1. "and we've seen that you're not much good at data analysis."

      That's true. And with the obvious bias, I don't think he could be trusted to report in an even-handed manner anyway.

  2. They should have called the police - they would have responded in time to make sure no one was hurt. This guy sounds like your typical vigilante thug and should be prosecuted for threating the man and brandishing a weapon. We can't expect the common citizen to know how to properly and safely handle dangerous situations like this - that is why we have police.

    On a side note, why wasn't the knife weilding guy screened better before being allowed to purchase a deadly weapon? Sounds like the store clerk that sold this weapon should also be liable for the damages done by it.

  3. I just want to say thank you for posting this article.

  4. There are several reasons why you don't hear about more defensive gun uses.

    (1) Many people that defend themselves don't call law enforcement or news organizations for various reasons.
    (2) Armed citizens merely have to point a firearm at a criminal to break off the attack in the overwhelming majority of attacks (as was the case in this example). Most of those events are not "newsworthy". This particular example may have been "newsworthy" because the criminal had already stabbed two people, it was in a "nice area" of town, and nothing else happened that day that was more "newsworthy".
    (3) Mainstream media are blatantly anti Second Amendment; thus they will avoid disseminating stories that paint firearm ownership in a positive light.

  5. The 2.5 million wasn't propagated by the NRA or other gunrights organization it came from a study by Dr. Kleck in the early 1990's. (Actually 2.1-2.5 million was the conclusion) In his book titled "Targeting Guns" it clearly said

    "The author is a member of the American Civil Liberties Union, Amnesty International USA, Independent Action, Democrats 2000, and Common Cause, among other politically liberal organizations He is a lifelong registered Democrat, as well as a contributor to liberal Democratic candidates. He is not now, nor has he ever been, a member of, or contributor to, the National Rifle Association, Handgun Control, Inc. nor any other advocacy organization, nor has he received funding for research from any such organization."

    Even after that studies were conducted to try and destroy this number, including one commissioned by the Clinton DoJ and conducted by Dr.s Philip Cook and Jens Ludwig. Now remembering that Clinton was a strong supporter of guncontrol with his assualt weapons ban, his department of justice commissioned this study which concluded there were 1.5 million DGU's a year.

    Either way that far outwieghs misuses of firearms. God help us all if either of these studies have any validity and your 1 : 100 ratio is also true. That'd mean we're losing about our entire population every year. True crisis.

    1. Lots of people have debated this 2.5 million claim. But one part of the argument I've never seen is this.

      Some percentage of DGU incidents are not defensive and legitimate. If the bad guy is dead, it's easy for the shooter to shade the circumstances enough in his direction to make it legit. If the bad guy lives, people tend not to believe what he has to say, he is a bad guy after all.

      This goes double for those supposed brandishings in which the bad guy runs away.

      So, I take the lowest estimate out there, which is about 50,000 or 60,000 and cut it in half. That's what you've got for true DGUs, and that corresponds perfectly with what we read in the news.

    2. Mikeb, do you ever bother with evidence, or is gut feeling always good enough for you?

    3. I think he prefers the term "common sense". Thats what leads him to just ignore two studies in favor of his favorite estimate, oh wait not quite that one, cut it in half. Because "brandishing" won't count because you didn't actually shoot the guy yet shooting the guy doesn't count because then there is only one side to the story. I guess it is hard to find a DGU for your standards.

      Well to play your game for just a little bit the CDC reported less than 12,000 homicides on average over the past ten years. Thats less than half of the half you are willing to recognize as real DGUs. If you're willing to recognize the study commissioned by the Clinton DoJ then for every murder there are 125 DGUs. Looks like you mixed up your ratio. I'll let you do the math for the Kleck number.

      Now that I'm sick of playing your social utility game I'd like to bring up the words of Niel Smith. If you only take one thing from the beautiful letter on that link I hope it is this, "the freedom to own and carry the weapon of your choice is a natural, fundamental, and inalienable human, individual, civil, and Constitutional right -- subject neither to the democratic process nor to arguments grounded in social utility"

  6. Self defense is a HUMAN right just as freedom of speech, religion, political and social affiliation, thought etc.. I ams so surprised that you so-called social scientists don't see this or choose not to just because you may have a phobia towards an object you do not fully understand.