From the Wall Street Journal.
Switzerland in 2008 had a rate of 0.7 murders per 100,000 people, compared to 1.4 for France, 1.2 for England & Wales and 5.2 for the U.S.Just these few statistics are enough to construct just about any kind of structure you want. Some folks love to do that and pretend that their conclusions are the only right ones.
One thing I'll say is this, Switzerland has seven times fewer murders than the U.S., per capita, and still they're concerned about the problem. What does that say about the pro-gun fanatics in the States who fight tooth and nail against any and every attempt to restrict guns?
What's your opinion? Please leave a comment.
"Just these few statistics are enough to construct just about any kind of structure you want."
ReplyDeleteI expect if you compared the number of guns per household rather than by person the Swiss would be closer to the US if not higher.
"I expect if you compared the number of guns per household rather than by person the Swiss would be closer to the US if not higher."
ReplyDeleteI assume, not expect, that if you took the gummint owned guns out of the hands of the swiss militia that the numbers would be less.
I also assume that this:
"The Swiss army has long been a militia trained and structured to rapidly respond against foreign aggression. Swiss males grow up expecting to undergo basic military training, usually at age 20 in the Rekrutenschule (German for "recruit school"), the initial boot camp, after which Swiss men remain part of the "militia" in reserve capacity until age 30 (age 34 for officers). Each such individual is required to keep his army-issued personal weapon (the 5.56x45mm Sig 550 rifle for enlisted personnel and/or the 9mm SIG-Sauer P220 semi-automatic pistol for officers, medical and postal personnel) at home with a specified personal retention quantity of government-issued personal ammunition (50 rounds 5.56 mm / 48 rounds 9mm), which is sealed and inspected regularly to ensure that no unauthorized use takes place.[3] The ammunition are intended for use while traveling to the army barracks in case of invasion."
is substantially accurate. I'd be fine with that, especially the annual training and a "locked, loaded and don't can't be shooted without a really good reason*" policy for using their firearms. Friends who lived in Switzeland in the 70's said that you could be jailed for not mowing your lawn or letting your car's maintenance go to pot. I can only imagine that unauthorized use of one's gummint weapon would be dealth with a bit more harshly.
*for instance, an invasion by, say, one of it's neighbors--okay, Germany, there I've said, GERMANY, can we just agree that this would be a really good reason to break the seal our ammo?
"I assume, not expect, that if you took the gummint owned guns out of the hands of the swiss militia that the numbers would be less."
ReplyDeleteWithout a doubt.
DemoCommie, Someone said that the Zug mass shooter did not use his issued Sig Assault rifle, but one he had purchased on the civvy market!
ReplyDeleteHow is that for an example of Swiss obedience to the law!
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/11/switzerland-vote-gun-reform-suicide
ReplyDeleteReformers also want a national gun registry and a ban on the sale of fully automatic weapons and pump-action rifles. Such policies, they claim, would help prevent rampages such as that in the town of Zug in 2001, when 14 people were shot dead at a local government meeting. The perpetrator, Friedrich Leibacher, who also killed himself, used a commercial version of the Swiss army's SG 550 assault rifle, a gun commonly found throughout the country, hidden in cupboards or stored under beds.
Fat White Man, you would be wrong.
ReplyDeleteThe study that provided these numbers was done in Switzerland, so, respectfully- they ought to know how they compare to the U.S. and everyone else.
I recognize the numbers, because I wrote about it here:
http://penigma.blogspot.com/2011_01_01_archive.html
and here is the link to the actual study itself, from that post of mine:
http://www.smallarmssurvey.org/
and the link to the academic organization in Geneva which did the study:
http://www.mastersportal.eu/students/browse/university/661/graduate-institute-of-international-and-development-studies-geneva.html
Because, unlike La Pierre of the NRA in speaking to CPAC, I like to be fact based. That is why I blog.
What does it say about pro-gun fanatics? It says we are right in that no matter how small your murder rates are, there will always be those who look to further restrict gun ownership.
ReplyDeleteDoggone,
ReplyDeleteWhat part am I wrong about? The part where I agreed with Democommie?
democommie said, "I assume, not expect, that if you took the gummint owned guns out of the hands of the swiss militia that the numbers would be less."
ReplyDeleteFWM said, "Without a doubt.".
I'm not sure what Dog Gone was saying, if anything about this.
To me what it means, in other words the structure I'd build on this information is one in which the Swiss have very few guns compared to their U.S. counterparts. In both countries there must be a certain percentage of gun owners who own a gun that's gathering dust in the closet or attic. I'd guess that percentage is higher in Switzerland.
America's the place with the big gun culture and as a consequence, the highest gun violence rate.
Great news from Switzerland:
ReplyDeleteJust two hours after polls closed, 22 out of 26 cantons returned final results, with a majority of cantons -- 17 -- voting firmly against the move.
Good for Switzerland.
Oh, and was some genius just telling us that "openly carrying a gun is anything but 'normal'"?
Tell that to the Swiss:
The Swiss ease with weapons is seen on the street and in railway stations, as young conscripts travel to and from military service nonchalantly carrying their semi-automatic rifle, with barely a glance from passers-by.
I said that if you compared to the percentage of households with guns that Swizterland might be more on par with or maybe even greater than the U.S. I was basing this on the militia requirement where better than one half of the households has a fully automatic true assault rifle at home.
ReplyDeleteDemocommie expects that the percentage of households with firearms in Switzerland would drop if we ignored the state issued weapons and I agreed with him "without a doubt".
I'm not sure what doggone is flapping his jowls about.
This version of the article contains a quote that should not have been left out of the other version, because it expresses the fundamental truth of the matter:
ReplyDeleteXavier Schwitzguebel, an officer in the Swiss army when he is on compulsory military service, pointed out that gun culture is a tradition here.
"If the yes goes through, it really risks destroying the country," he warned.
Swiss society is built on trust between the citizen and the state, he argued.
"If we take away the weapon, which represents this trust, that means that we are breaking the sacred union between democracy and citizen."
Superbly stated, as I'm sure all will agree.
Zorroy, Whoever wrote that "with barely a glance from passers-by" is absolutely wrong. People are mesmerized by and attracted to guns on the street, the more "assault-like" the better. People stare with curiosity or abhorrence, some try to be cool and not get caught staring, but "with barely a glance" is total bullshit.
ReplyDeleteSame with Breda in her freedom-loving town. She might as well be wearing a sandwich-board sign proclaiming how cool and tough and fearless she is, and let's not forget how like the boys she is.
Zorroy, Whoever wrote that "with barely a glance from passers-by" is absolutely wrong.
ReplyDeleteHe he. Keep telling yourself that, if it makes you feel better.
@Mikeb, I know you're in Italy, have you been to Switzerland and actually seen this for yourself?
ReplyDeleteI haven't had the opportunity, so I am wondering if you have.
...Orygunner...
Orygunner, I've spent only one day in Switzerland. I visited the beautiful city of St. Moritz. I did not see one single gun.
ReplyDeleteOrygunner, I've spent only one day in Switzerland. I visited the beautiful city of St. Moritz. I did not see one single gun.
ReplyDeleteAh, well who could argue with that incontrovertible proof of your assertion that the journalist who wrote that the Swiss public spares "barely a glance" for conscripts with assault rifles is "absolutely wrong"? A whole day in one city? You're a damned expert on Swiss attitudes, obviously!
Zorroy, You know sometimes you're a real asshole. I didn't base anything on that one day's visit, I suspect you knew that. I was just answering the question.
ReplyDeleteZorroy, You know sometimes you're a real asshole.
ReplyDeleteOnly sometimes? I clearly need to work on my consistency. Still, I can take comfort in your calling me a "real asshole," as an endorsement of my authenticity. I'd hate to be thought of as an artificial asshole.
I didn't base anything on that one day's visit . . .
Then on what are you basing your rather strong claim that the author of the article was "absolutely wrong" in stating that the Swiss public spares "barely a glance" for young people carrying assault rifles? Surely, you must have some grounds for believing that your assessment of Swiss attitudes ("mesmerized," was it?) toward the sight of heavily armed people in public is correct, while the author's is "absolutely wrong." Otherwise, you would just be talking out your ass, and even I hesitate to be enough of an asshole to accuse you of that, without the courtesy of at least first affording you the opportunity to demonstrate what a vile calumny that would be.
If it's "assholish" of me to ask what those grounds are, so be it. I do have a reputation to uphold, after all.