Wednesday, September 19, 2012

Shooting in Indianapolis Gun Shop

Local news reports

What happened to him and his reaction, is no surprise to fellow workers at gun stores across Indianapolis.

“Anytime something like this happens in a gun shop community, phone calls go out before the news,” Mike Hilton, of Pop Guns.

Mike Hilton of Pop Guns and Family Indoor Shooting Range says his employees are highly trained in firearms tactics and use, and are even more watchful Monday. A number of years ago, Hilton had guns pulled on him in his store as well.

Don Davis, the owner of Don's Guns, says his clerk, Ben Chance, was shot twice by a customer, 26-year old Brian Wayner. He says Chance had just given Wayner his bill for using the shooting range inside.  Davis says Chance then fired back.. killing Wayner.

“He did exactly what any of us will do, we’ll shoot you back,” said Davis.
Interesting attitude these Indianapolis gun shop owners have isn't it? They sound as if this is not the extremely rare occurrence we often hear it is from the gun-rights folks.

Usually in an attempt to malign gun-free zones, the pro-gun guys will claim that shootings in gun shops and police stations almost never happen.  But that doesn't seem to be the case in Indianapolis.

What's your opinion?  When someone suddenly decides to shoot up the place, do you think they're concerned with whether it's a gun free zone or not?

Please leave a comment.

20 comments:

  1. "the pro-gun guys will claim that shootings in gun shops and police stations almost never happen."

    Mass Shootings rarely occur at gun shops, police stations and gun ranges, and this is a fine example of a civilian putting a stop to a would be mass shooting.

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    1. I know. You used to say they never happen there, now it's "rarely."

      The fact it mass shootings rarely happen, period. When they do, they have nothing to do with gun free or gun rich zone, nothing.

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    2. Has there ever actually been a mass shooting at a range, police station or gun shop? I don't think so.

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    3. Ever? C'mon Bill, get real. On my own little blog they've been covered. Try Google - or maybe you don't want to know.

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  2. "... the pro-gun guys will claim that shootings in gun shops and police stations almost never happen."

    Since this is the first time in my entire life that I have ever heard of an attack in a gun shop, I'd say that statement is correct.

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    1. In this very same story, another one is mentioned in the same shop. Can't you put two and two together from that. They're not as rare as you've been thinking.

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  3. Did you see the difference here between the gun shop and a gun-free zone? At the gun shop, the bad guy got put down in short order.

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    1. Yeah, right after he shot somebody.

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    2. so he should have been shot before he threatened someone's life?

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    3. There is no winning with Mike. If he shot the guy before being shot himself, it would be a "so called DGU" from a trigger happy gun nut who was just itching to kill somebody.

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    4. Well, not always, TS. I figure there are a few hundred legitimate DGUs every year. That's not nothing.

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    5. A few hundred? Qualified social scientists have come up with numbers that vary from the hundreds of thousands to several million per annum, but Mikeb is convinced that it's only a few hundred. How about I say that only fifty people get murdered with a gun in a given year? That feels better to me. Good enough for you?

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  4. This is a prime example of a lawful gun owner stopping a mass shooter in progress. Isn't this what you claim never happens? A lawful gun owner at the site of a shooting is able to identify the criminal, take out the criminal, and manages to not shoot any bystanders in the process. I guess we should count our blessings that the gun owner was able to solve the problem before the police arrived and started shooting anyone who moved.

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    1. Good point Jim. If the police had arrived, there could be 9 wounded bystanders! Well, maybe a few less since Indianapolis police are not required to have the 12 pound trigger pull that New York Police officers have. And who knows how many dogs the gun shop employee saved?

      I keep telling the law enforcement types that armed citizens make their jobs safer. When a criminal attacks an armed citizen, the criminal rarely poses any threat to law enforcement by the time that law enforcement arrives.

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  5. I'd say this is more like a "suicide-by-clerk" case, since he didn't seem interested in robbing the place. I'm guessing that the guy went there to commit suicide, and blew through all the ammo as he was trying build up the nerve. Failing that, he decided instead to shoot at the one guy guaranteed to kill him. It wouldn't be the first case of suicide at a gun range (there have been others this year), but it would be the first "suicide-by-clerk" case I've heard of.

    Hey, gun guys, can you answer a question for me? Do you need a background check to just rent a gun? I'm guessing not, since I've heard of birthday parties with large groups that rented shooting ranges, including for kids. If no background check, then how can the gun shop guarantee that the renter isn't a criminal or mentally insane?

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    1. 1. If his intention was suicide, that requires only one bullet. It's not something that needs to be practiced.

      2. I imagine that the answer is different in different locations and stores, but renting isn't owning.

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    2. Baldr: "I'm guessing that the guy went there to commit suicide, and blew through all the ammo as he was trying build up the nerve. Failing that, he decided instead to shoot at the one guy guaranteed to kill him."

      I'm not so sure about your police work there, Baldr. How does he shoot the clerk after running out of ammo?

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    3. Baldr I agree that the man didn't appear interested in robbing the store. In my opinion it was either a failed attempt at a mass shooting or suicide-by-clerk. I can totally see the scenario that you stated -- he was working up the nerve to kill himself and just couldn't bring himself to do it so he did the next best thing: shoot at the clerk.

      As for a background check to rent a gun, I am not certain but I don't believe so. That is an interesting idea to debate.

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    4. Anonymous, consider how long a background check takes. I've had to wait on occasions for more than an hour for the bureaucrat to get back from lunch. That was in Tennessee. In Arkansas, as a carry-license holder, I get a pass. Calling for background checks for renting a gun is just another effort to clog up the system and make using guns so difficult that many will give up.

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    5. "I'm guessing..."

      Get back to us when you can provide an EDUCATED guess.

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