"Thirteen people, including a toddler, have been wounded in an overnight gang shooting in Chicago, police say."
"We believe that the motive for the shooting was gang-related," said Ron Gaines, a spokesman with the Chicago Police Department." http://au.news.yahoo.com/world/a/-/world/19024295/chicago-park-shooting-wounds-13/
Laci How exactly does McDonald facilitate gang violence? Seems to me that this kind of thing has ben going on well before that case.
Yes, the McDonald ruling hasn't changed much, since getting a legal firearm is still exceedingly difficult. But gang thugs still ignore the law as they've always done. This is another example of gun control failure.
Nearly all the guns used in crime in Chicago, and elsewhere, come from you lawful gun owners. That's why you fanatics are to blame. You insist on the loose laws that enable that gun flow to go on.
Are you saying that it's impossible? That's my point. Even if you got every one of your silly laws passed, criminals would still have guns. Of course, a whole lot of good citizens would also be criminals then, that being the honorable response.
You're being shifty again, Greg. A comment ago you were talking about the possibility of this particular gun in Chicago having come in with the coke. When I ridiculed you for that, you changed it to the general POSSIBILITY if and when all the guns magically disappear.
I said prove that drug dealers can't add guns to the list of things they import. Add. That means something new that isn't necessarily included now. My point, which you consistently duck, remains.
I've never ducked that issue. I've said from the beginning it's obviously possible and if guns were outlawed entirely this would certainly happen. But, it would never match the tremendous accessibility we have now. It wouldn't even come close. American gun manufacturers produce more guns each year than the legal gun-owning community can absorb. Why, because they count on the huge gun flow into the criminal world. Nothing could replace that, certainly not illegally imported guns.
A Woodlynne, N.J., man today admitted – as part of his guilty plea to federal firearms and drug distribution charges – to selling illegally to drug dealers and other criminals in the Camden area at least 100 guns he purchased with cash from other illicit firearms dealers, U.S. Attorney Paul J. Fishman announced. Terrance Laboo, aka “Terrance Reeves,” 40, pleaded guilty before U.S. District Judge Robert B. Kugler in Camden federal court to an information charging him with one count each of dealing firearms without a license, conspiracy to deal in firearms without a federal firearms license, possession of firearms by a convicted felon and distribution of PCP. “Today Terrance Laboo admitted he poisoned the streets of Camden with dangerous drugs and deadly weapons,” said U.S. Attorney Fishman. “Criminals who exploit the laws of other states to bring guns into New Jersey fuel a culture of violence that destroys communities and lives.”
The point was that they COULD easily add guns to the array of illicit products they sell, whether they were dealing in guns now or not.
Sarge's example shows one person who has begun the diversification project in a state that has begun applying some of the gun control that Mike wants (God only knows what you want since you never have given a clear statement). This just adds weight to the argument that smugglers, who also bring in knock off products, high flow toilets, and anything else that a black market has developed for, would start bringing in guns if Mike got his way.
Of course you blame the gun rights fanatics, Mike. But in this case the gun rights fanatics are the gang bangers. They believe their right to own is above any law. Of course they also believe that no law applies to them, you know, murder is also illegal.
And where do you think the gang members get their guns, I mean where do those guns originally come from? They all start out the lawful possessions of guys like you. Between half-a-million and a million are stolen each year because you guys have successfully fought against safe storage laws. A similar number are turned over to criminals in private transactions which thanks to you fanatics have taken place without background checks.
Yes, they come stolen, underground black market and so forth. But not from me or guys like me Mike. Or did you forget about the subject that we have spoken before about this.
What is you idea to stop the flow of stolen guns? When you say black market are you saying those guns are not stolen? So the manufacturer must be selling illegally? And so forth? What does that mean? Truth is you gun loons don't want to do anything to stop deaths, or the stolen gun trade. Go clean your gun. Maybe we will get lucky and you will have an "accident."
And Jim continues wishing for the "gun deaths" of his opponents. It kinda takes all the power out of his talk about wanting to stop gun deaths and shows he's just a hypocrite.
Jim, that's bullshit, and you know it. It's not that we don't care. What we do is recognize that gun control isn't the answer. We see that punishing good people for the actions of a few bad people isn't just and won't save lives.
Texas, I haven't forgotten our exchanges. I have no doubt you are not one of the hidden criminals or irresponsible good guys. But, the question remains, how representative are you of all gun owners? Not very, is my guess.
Put a number where your bigotry is, Mikeb. What percentage of gun owners are "hidden criminals"? And don't give me fifty percent. We both know you've made that up. I want facts.
And you've been shown repeatedly that your statistics are about categories that aren't mutually exclusive. There is, in fact, a great deal of overlap among them. That invalidates your 50% claim. I'll even accept that in general, gun owners are as criminal as the total population. Carry license holders are a special group, but gun owners includes a representative sampling of the U.S.
But using some facts would give your case its first dose of credibility.
No, Mikeb, I said that the vast majority of people, gun owners and not, are not criminals, hidden or otherwise.
What your proposals would do is make legal gun ownership so burdensome that few would be able to comply or would bother. There would then be many more people getting guns illegally. But your proposals really have little if anything to do with keeping guns out fo the hands of criminals. Instead, what you want is to make getting guns hard for good citizens.
Every time a defenseless person is beaten, raped, or murdered, I blame you for making self-defense harder and the best tool for self-defense harder to get. Man, we all have a lot of blood on our hands. That’s what happens when we play the blame game while casting the biggest net possible.
Sorry to tell you, but between you and me, only you share in the culpability for gun violence. Only you support lax gun laws that keep the gun availability high to unfit and dangerous people. That's why I blame you.
That makes no sense, Greg. You're like a 5-year-old.
My proposals would lead to less gun violence, but according to you they violate freedom so we cannot have them. You're ideas allow for more and more gun violence through lax or non-existent laws. That's why you are responsible for gun violence regardless of what state it happens in.
I am no more responsible for gun violence in free states than you are for gun violence in slave states. But if you want to insist on the former, I'm going to blame you for every incident of failure of gun control.
Thank you, McDonald v. Chicago for bringin more guns into the city of Chicago!
ReplyDelete"Thirteen people, including a toddler, have been wounded in an overnight gang shooting in Chicago, police say."
ReplyDelete"We believe that the motive for the shooting was gang-related," said Ron Gaines, a spokesman with the Chicago Police Department."
http://au.news.yahoo.com/world/a/-/world/19024295/chicago-park-shooting-wounds-13/
Laci How exactly does McDonald facilitate gang violence? Seems to me that this kind of thing has ben going on well before that case.
It has, but as the gun laws loosen up even in Illinois, more guns will flow into the criminal world more easily. That's how.
DeleteYes, the McDonald ruling hasn't changed much, since getting a legal firearm is still exceedingly difficult. But gang thugs still ignore the law as they've always done. This is another example of gun control failure.
ReplyDeleteNearly all the guns used in crime in Chicago, and elsewhere, come from you lawful gun owners. That's why you fanatics are to blame. You insist on the loose laws that enable that gun flow to go on.
DeleteProve it. And then prove that drug dealers who import illegal products can't add guns to their business.
DeleteSure Greg. The guns on the street being used in crime are coming in with the Coke.
DeleteYou know, it must be sad to have to defend your position with fantastic nonsense like that.
Are you saying that it's impossible? That's my point. Even if you got every one of your silly laws passed, criminals would still have guns. Of course, a whole lot of good citizens would also be criminals then, that being the honorable response.
DeleteYou're being shifty again, Greg. A comment ago you were talking about the possibility of this particular gun in Chicago having come in with the coke. When I ridiculed you for that, you changed it to the general POSSIBILITY if and when all the guns magically disappear.
DeleteI said prove that drug dealers can't add guns to the list of things they import. Add. That means something new that isn't necessarily included now. My point, which you consistently duck, remains.
DeleteGreg didn't make the change you suggest, Mike. He was talking about that possibility and how it negates your proposals all along.
DeleteI've never ducked that issue. I've said from the beginning it's obviously possible and if guns were outlawed entirely this would certainly happen. But, it would never match the tremendous accessibility we have now. It wouldn't even come close. American gun manufacturers produce more guns each year than the legal gun-owning community can absorb. Why, because they count on the huge gun flow into the criminal world. Nothing could replace that, certainly not illegally imported guns.
DeleteMike B, B.S., M.S., Ph.D.
DeleteMikeb, the point is that if your proposals became law, only criminals would have easy access to guns. Why do you want that?
DeleteHey fake professor NRA Greg, please prove drug dealers are also selling illegal guns. Prove it!
DeleteA Woodlynne, N.J., man today admitted – as part of his guilty plea to federal firearms and drug distribution charges – to selling illegally to drug dealers and other criminals in the Camden area at least 100 guns he purchased with cash from other illicit firearms dealers, U.S. Attorney Paul J. Fishman announced.
DeleteTerrance Laboo, aka “Terrance Reeves,” 40, pleaded guilty before U.S. District Judge Robert B. Kugler in Camden federal court to an information charging him with one count each of dealing firearms without a license, conspiracy to deal in firearms without a federal firearms license, possession of firearms by a convicted felon and distribution of PCP.
“Today Terrance Laboo admitted he poisoned the streets of Camden with dangerous drugs and deadly weapons,” said U.S. Attorney Fishman. “Criminals who exploit the laws of other states to bring guns into New Jersey fuel a culture of violence that destroys communities and lives.”
http://www.bergendispatch.com/articles/28656077/Illegal-Firearms-And-Drug-Dealer-Admits-Selling-At-Least-100-Guns-To-Criminals-In-Camden-NJ-Area.aspx
One guy. That just proves you are grasping at straw men. Where is the proof that drug dealers are behind illegal gun sales?
DeleteJim,
DeleteThe point was that they COULD easily add guns to the array of illicit products they sell, whether they were dealing in guns now or not.
Sarge's example shows one person who has begun the diversification project in a state that has begun applying some of the gun control that Mike wants (God only knows what you want since you never have given a clear statement). This just adds weight to the argument that smugglers, who also bring in knock off products, high flow toilets, and anything else that a black market has developed for, would start bringing in guns if Mike got his way.
Jim, are you even capable of addressing a point that I actually make?
DeleteOf course you blame the gun rights fanatics, Mike. But in this case the gun rights fanatics are the gang bangers. They believe their right to own is above any law. Of course they also believe that no law applies to them, you know, murder is also illegal.
ReplyDeletePlace the blame where it belongs.
And where do you think the gang members get their guns, I mean where do those guns originally come from? They all start out the lawful possessions of guys like you. Between half-a-million and a million are stolen each year because you guys have successfully fought against safe storage laws. A similar number are turned over to criminals in private transactions which thanks to you fanatics have taken place without background checks.
DeleteYes, you can be proud of your handiwork.
Yes, they come stolen, underground black market and so forth. But not from me or guys like me Mike. Or did you forget about the subject that we have spoken before about this.
DeleteTexass,
DeleteWhat is you idea to stop the flow of stolen guns?
When you say black market are you saying those guns are not stolen?
So the manufacturer must be selling illegally?
And so forth? What does that mean?
Truth is you gun loons don't want to do anything to stop deaths, or the stolen gun trade.
Go clean your gun. Maybe we will get lucky and you will have an "accident."
And Jim continues wishing for the "gun deaths" of his opponents. It kinda takes all the power out of his talk about wanting to stop gun deaths and shows he's just a hypocrite.
DeleteJust taking up the favorite topic of the gun loons. No care for even one death.
DeleteJim, that's bullshit, and you know it. It's not that we don't care. What we do is recognize that gun control isn't the answer. We see that punishing good people for the actions of a few bad people isn't just and won't save lives.
DeleteTexas, I haven't forgotten our exchanges. I have no doubt you are not one of the hidden criminals or irresponsible good guys. But, the question remains, how representative are you of all gun owners? Not very, is my guess.
DeletePut a number where your bigotry is, Mikeb. What percentage of gun owners are "hidden criminals"? And don't give me fifty percent. We both know you've made that up. I want facts.
DeleteMy 50% theory is based on facts and statistics. You don't like it because your whole rap depends on gun owners being superior human specimens.
DeleteAnd you've been shown repeatedly that your statistics are about categories that aren't mutually exclusive. There is, in fact, a great deal of overlap among them. That invalidates your 50% claim. I'll even accept that in general, gun owners are as criminal as the total population. Carry license holders are a special group, but gun owners includes a representative sampling of the U.S.
DeleteBut using some facts would give your case its first dose of credibility.
Greg, in one comment you say my restrictions would exclude 100%. Now you're saying even the 50% is too high.
DeleteGet your story straight, man.
No, Mikeb, I said that the vast majority of people, gun owners and not, are not criminals, hidden or otherwise.
DeleteWhat your proposals would do is make legal gun ownership so burdensome that few would be able to comply or would bother. There would then be many more people getting guns illegally. But your proposals really have little if anything to do with keeping guns out fo the hands of criminals. Instead, what you want is to make getting guns hard for good citizens.
Laci could never bring himself to blame the african amwrican no sniching thug-life assholes that actually did the shooting.....
ReplyDeleteNope it is all the fault of the lawful gun owners that were at home asleep....
Please refer to my comments above. I'm sure they contain some ideas that never occurred to you.
DeleteEvery time a defenseless person is beaten, raped, or murdered, I blame you for making self-defense harder and the best tool for self-defense harder to get. Man, we all have a lot of blood on our hands. That’s what happens when we play the blame game while casting the biggest net possible.
ReplyDeleteSorry to tell you, but between you and me, only you share in the culpability for gun violence. Only you support lax gun laws that keep the gun availability high to unfit and dangerous people. That's why I blame you.
DeleteAnd Mikeb, I hereby blame you and your vile crew every time a gun is fired in a slave state.
DeleteThat makes no sense, Greg. You're like a 5-year-old.
DeleteMy proposals would lead to less gun violence, but according to you they violate freedom so we cannot have them. You're ideas allow for more and more gun violence through lax or non-existent laws. That's why you are responsible for gun violence regardless of what state it happens in.
I am no more responsible for gun violence in free states than you are for gun violence in slave states. But if you want to insist on the former, I'm going to blame you for every incident of failure of gun control.
DeleteYour proposals would lead to fewer DGUs (which is a subset of 'gun violence'). Will you take responsibility for that?
Delete