Sunday, September 15, 2013

So you've found an obscure law and you think it proves your point???

In this case, The Northwest Ordinance of 1787, the complete text of this document can be found here.

The proper name of this is An Ordinance for the Government of the Territory of the United States, North-West of the River Ohio, and also known as the Freedom Ordinance or "The Ordinance of 1787", was an act of the Congress of the Confederation of the United States, passed July 13, 1787. The primary effect of the ordinance was the creation of the Northwest Territory, the first organized territory of the United States, from lands south of the Great Lakes, north and west of the Ohio River, and east of the Mississippi River.

OK, do you see a few problems here with trying to claim it is law under the US Constitution?

Next we come to the part that the gunloons like to claim supports "their" position, Article 3, which they quote only part of the article, which is:
Religion, morality, and knowledge, being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education shall forever be encouraged.

The hope is that people who say that the syntax of the Second Amendment means that the proeme (prefatory clause) controls the "operative" clause will be confounded.

Nothing of the like here since the above is only one sentence of Article 3, which says in its entirety:
Art. 3. Religion, morality, and knowledge, being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education shall forever be encouraged. The utmost good faith shall always be observed towards the Indians; their lands and property shall never be taken from them without their consent; and, in their property, rights, and liberty, they shall never be invaded or disturbed, unless in just and lawful wars authorized by Congress; but laws founded in justice and humanity, shall from time to time be made for preventing wrongs being done to them, and for preserving peace and friendship with them.
Now, do you see some additional problems with trying to analogise the Second Amendment to the Northwest Ordinance of 1787?

If anything it helps make my point that laws can become obsolete due to changes in the Institution.

You can learn more than you ever wanted to know about this document here.

As for the grammar of the Second Amendment--I've posted this several times before, but it needs to be repeated since some people can't get their minds around the concept.
In the case of the Second Amendment, the first clause announces the purpose (from Adam Freeman's Clause and Effect) :
The best way to make sense of the Second Amendment is to take away all the commas (which, I know, means that only outlaws will have commas). Without the distracting commas, one can focus on the grammar of the sentence. Professor Lund is correct that the clause about a well-regulated militia is “absolute,” but only in the sense that it is grammatically independent of the main clause, not that it is logically unrelated. To the contrary, absolute clauses typically provide a causal or temporal context for the main clause.
The founders — most of whom were classically educated — would have recognized this rhetorical device as the “ablative absolute” of Latin prose. To take an example from Horace likely to have been familiar to them: “Caesar, being in command of the earth, I fear neither civil war nor death by violence” (ego nec tumultum nec mori per vim metuam, tenente Caesare terras). The main clause flows logically from the absolute clause: “Because Caesar commands the earth, I fear neither civil war nor death by violence.”
Diagramming the Second Amendment, one should end up with something that expresses a causal link, like: “Because a well regulated militia is necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed.” In other words, the amendment is really about protecting militias, notwithstanding the arguments to the contrary.

In his Rudiments of English Grammar (1790), Noah Webster writes that “a nominative case or word, joined with a participle, often stands independently of the sentence. This is called the case absolute.” Webster gives several examples, including, “They all consenting, the vote was passed.” He explains, “The words in italics are not connected with the other part of the sentence, either by agreement or government; they are therefore in the case absolute, which, in English, is always the nominative.” Grammatical independence, to Webster, is not about political self-determination, it's all about the nominative case. But he would acknowledge without hesitation that the vote would not have passed without the consent of the voters.

Webster’s readers would have had no difficulty recognizing that the Second Amendment also begins with an absolute. They would have studied the absolute in school, and they had probably been tested on it in a federalist-era version of No Child Left Behind.

Any educated federalist also would have learned in school that government, in grammar, merely refers to the case of a noun – its inflection as a nominative, dative, genitive, accusative (or, in the case of Latin, an ablative). As Robert Lowth, the author of the most widely-studied school grammar of the time, put it, “Regimen, or government, is when a word causeth a following word to be in some case, or mode.” For example, prepositions cause the following noun or pronoun to take the dative case. Or as the schoolbooks liked to say, prepositions govern the dative. That’s why we say, “Give the gun to me,” not, “Give it to I.”

Anyway, since the clause "a well regulated militia is necessary to the security of a free state" announces the purpose for the right, We need to go back to the citation from Blackstone regarding the “proeme, or preamble” since it is part of a larger section that consists of “observations concerning the interpretation of laws.” 1 Blackstone at 58. One of those “observations” was: “BUT, lastly, the most universal and effectual way of discovering the true meaning of a law, when the words are dubious, is by considering the reason and spirit of it; or the cause which moved the legislator to enact it. For when this reason ceases, the laws itself ought likewise to cease with it.” 1 Blackstone at 61.
If anything, this argument works best on people's historic ignorance, as does most of the gun loon argument.

2 comments:

  1. 1. The Northwest Ordinance is a good example, since the sentence in question has the same structure and shows how the reason for writing a law can be something narrow, while the operative part of the sentence can cover much more.

    2. You praise the Founders for their knowledge and prose style, but then you fail to explain why the amendment would identify the right as belonging to the people and not to the militia or to the state. There is nothing dubious or difficult to understand in the Second Amendment, unless you're committed to a statist view of things.

    3. But here you are, trying to sound like an originalist. You've said at various stages that Congress and the courts decide what a law means and how it's to be applied. Both have concluded that the Second Amendment protects an individual right. By your own belief, you now have to accept that interpretation.

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  2. Nice job using a wall of text to obscure the fact that you just totally sidestepped the issue.

    At least this time you actually properly identified the issue that had been raised, so kudos for that. Of course, you then pretended that the other sentences in the article somehow changed the interpretation of the initial sentence and meant that it could not be used as a example of similar structure.


    You piled the B.S. deep, but you still didn't convince anyone that you could properly diagram a sentence or that you can distinguish the syntax in the Northwest Ordinance from that in the Second Amendment.

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