That's where I disagree. All guns start out as the legally owned property of some gun owner of FFL gun dealer and somehow end up in criminal hands. Laws aimed at those legitimate gun owners can definitely prevent some of these incidents. If gun owners are so legitimate, why don't they cooperate more with attempts at prevention?
It's interesting that Boston joins a number of other major cities who've suffered a terrible increase in gun violence last year. Even more interesting is how the gun rights extremists try to spin that one around.Yesterday’s shooting is the first homicide of the year for the Boston Police Department, which saw a nearly 50 percent increase in homicides last year. More than 70 people were killed in 2010, which started with a deadly shooting and a separate stabbing incident on New Year’s Day. Most of last year’s homicides involved a firearm, Boston police statistics show.
What's your opinion? Please leave a comment.
I'm making a prediction that this was either directly gang-related, or committed by someone with an extensive criminal history. Normal people, especially CCW permit holders, do not shoot someone over everyday arguments.
ReplyDeleteI will not accept restrictions on my natural right to self defense because of the behavior of gang members in Dorchester.
Let's see if we can get some straight forward answers from you, rather than vague anti-gunner rhetoric.
ReplyDelete"Laws aimed at those legitimate gun owners can definitely prevent some of these incidents."
Q: Do you have any proof to back up that statement?
Answer:
The vast majority of guns used in crime are stolen guns.
Q: What laws do you suggest imposing to prevent theft?
Answer:
"It's interesting that Boston joins a number of other major cities who've suffered a terrible increase in gun violence last year."
You listed one other (ahem) "Major City"... Tulsa, OK.
USA Today" just reported homicides in New York have dropped 79% during the past two decades, Chicago is down 46% during that period, Los Angeles is down 68%.
Q: What data do you have that "a number of other major cities" are having a gun crime upswing? How many cities, which cities, and how much?
Answer:
"Even more interesting is how the gun rights extremists try to spin that one around."
Q: What EXACT spin are extremists putting on "that one"
Answer:
"Laws aimed at those legitimate gun owners can definitely prevent some of these incidents."
ReplyDeleteQ: Do you have any proof to back up that statement?
Before proving something, you need a plausible hypothesis. What is the mechanism by which restricting lawful gun owners will reduce gang killings?
There is none. Gun control is all about the appearance of doing something, instead of devoting the serious time and money needed for effective crime prevention.
The black market for these peoples' guns is very small and easily satisfied. If we destroyed 99 of every 100 guns, every criminal who wanted a gun would still have one.
MA gunowners: How do criminals get guns? Do they magically appear?
ReplyDeleteThe fact is every gun that winds up in a criminal's hands starts out as a perfectly legal gun.
In reality, stloen guns account for about 10% of the crimes involving guns.
The way crooks get guns, in order, are:
1. straw purchases
2. corrupt FFLs
3. gun show loophole/personal transactions
4. gun thefts
Of course, you won't admit it but effective gun control could easily make the above avenues either close down or make it prohibitively difficult.
1. straw purchases
ReplyDeleteAlready illegal to make a straw purchase.
2. corrupt FFLs
Already illegal.
3. gun show loophole/personal transactions
Already illegal to sell to a prohibited person. In my state, buyer must present valid LTC and seller submits official paperwork.
4. gun thefts
Already illegal to steal a gun.
So, you're saying criminals get their guns in four illegal ways. Shocking.
What new gun control laws would prevent criminals from breaking the laws they're already breaking?
Shorter MAgunowner: It's already illegal.
ReplyDeleteYet, we still have guns getting into criminal hands despite your claims it's already illegal.
What does that suggest? It means the laws have to be much tighter and other initiatives implemented.
As we both know, it'd be pretty easy to put a big crimp in straw purchases via licensing and registration. In such a manner, you'd make the legal owner of a gun used in a crime criminally liable. It may not completely end all straw purchases but it would seriously knock down the numbers. Effect on law-abiding citizens: none.
Corrupt FFLs. Right now, a corrupt FFL can have several hundred gun violations and still stay in business. Again, if we tighten up the laws and add greater enforcement, these corrupt FFLs will be history. Effect on law-abiding citizens: none.
Gunshow loophole/private transactions. Close the loophole and require background checks on all firearm transactions. Combined with licensing and registration--this would virtually close this pipeline of guns to criminals. Effect on law-abiding citizens: none.
Stolen guns. Require all stolen firearms be reported to police by licensed gunowner within 72 hrs. Require purchase of gun safe/locks by licensed gunowner. Effect on law-abiding citizen: minimal.
Keep dodging the questions mike and jade... keep dodging.
ReplyDeleteBy the way... FBI research indicates that 60% of guns used in crimes traced back to being stolen from a legal owner... Where are you getting your numbers???
Keep dodging.....
It means the laws have to be much tighter and other initiatives implemented.
ReplyDeleteYou do know that laws don't prevent crime... Right?
As we both know, it'd be pretty easy to put a big crimp in straw purchases via licensing and registration.
Ask Canada how well that works...
In such a manner, you'd make the legal owner of a gun used in a crime criminally liable.
Really? So if my gun gets stolen, and is used in a crime, I'm held liable?
It may not completely end all straw purchases but it would seriously knock down the numbers.
No evidence of that being the case in states with gun registration...
Effect on law-abiding citizens: none.
Except from the liability you want to impose on them.
Corrupt FFLs. Right now, a corrupt FFL can have several hundred gun violations and still stay in business. Again, if we tighten up the laws and add greater enforcement, these corrupt FFLs will be history. Effect on law-abiding citizens: none.
Laws don't need to be made for this... they exist... Just enforce the ones we have.
Gunshow loophole/private transactions. Close the loophole and require background checks on all firearm transactions. Combined with licensing and registration--this would virtually close this pipeline of guns to criminals. Effect on law-abiding citizens: none.
Since the ATF reports that Only 0.7% of convicts bought their firearms at gun shows. Doing something at a gun show level is rather moot... 39.2% obtained them from illegal street dealers. Those are the dealers you need to be worried about.
Stolen guns. Require all stolen firearms be reported to police by licensed gunowner within 72 hrs.
Nothing wrong there... most people do. They want their guns back, and if they are filing an insurance claim, they will need it.
Require purchase of gun safe/locks by licensed gunowner. Effect on law-abiding citizen: minimal.
LOL... locks and safes stopping criminals? Check this out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBhOjWHbD6M
You do know that laws don't prevent crime...
ReplyDeleteActually, they do. Not in all cases, but they do prevent more crimes.
For example, we have laws against rape. Rape still occurs but are you prepared to tell us that if we removed all laws against rape--we'd have the same number of rapes or fewer?
Ask Canada how well that works...
Sure. Canada's gun violence rates per capita are about 20% that of the US. If we had Canada's gun violence numbers we'd be dancing in the streets.
Really? So if my gun gets stolen, and is used in a crime, I'm held liable?
If you failed to report it. Right now, its pretty easy for a crook to borrow a gun from a buddy. If the gun is used in a crime and traced back to the owner--all the owner has to say is 'oh, it was stolen 5 months ago.'
Laws don't need to be made for this.
Actually, the NRA has weakened the law to allow FFLs to stay in business or transfer the business to a spouse or relative.
Jade: “Stolen guns. Require all stolen firearms be reported to police by licensed gunowner within 72 hrs.”
ReplyDeleteThis belongs under straw purchases (at least that is what you have said in the past). Tell me, is there any evidence that suggest legitimate victims of firearm theft don’t report the crime? A law like this would have the unintended consequence of increasing whatever non-reporting there is because of fear of prosecution for being a theft victim.
Jade: “Require purchase of gun safe/locks by licensed gunowner. Effect on law-abiding citizen: minimal.”
Trigger locks are not anti-theft. If the requirement is for safes, how about the government subsidizing the safes? If it is such a good idea, you share the cost with us. Also, effect on law abiding citizen who lives in a Manhattan studio: complete prohibition.
Jade: "If the gun is used in a crime and traced back to the owner--all the owner has to say is 'oh, it was stolen 5 months ago.'"
ReplyDeleteAnd all the murderer has say is “oh, I didn’t do it”, and the cops will just have to look for someone who says they did do it.
"Actually, the NRA has weakened the law to allow FFLs to stay in business or transfer the business to a spouse or relative."
ReplyDeleteAnd how did the NRA accomplish that?
MAgunowner, Jadegold already said everything I would have said.
ReplyDeleteI'll just mention how silly you sound with this adolescent bluster.
"I will not accept restrictions on my natural right to self defense because of the behavior of gang members in Dorchester."
The fact is you already do accept restrictions. You cannot own a suitcase nuke or even a surface to air missile. If, in your twisted idea of what's needed for self defense, you really thought those items would be required, you cannot have them.
So, please stop with all than nonsense about your natural right to self defense.