He must have forgotten there was one in the chamber. Can anyone tell me how such a thing is possible? It seems to me that even with no training and no experience you should be able to figure that out and avoid it 100%. Yet, we read these stories almost daily. How? Why?A Newark man accidentally shot himself in the hand while cleaning his gun Thursday night.
Ryan Healy, 33, had arrived early to play guitar and decided to clean his handgun in his vehicle in the parking lot of Tony's Bar, 293 W. Main St., Newark police Sgt. Scott Snow said.
Healy removed the magazine and was taking the gun apart when Healy accidentally shot himself in the hand at 8:57 p.m. Thursday, Snow said.
I have a theory. The large group of people roughly defined as law-abiding gun owners contains a fairly high percentage of unfit characters. These forget-the-one-in-the-chamber guys are not the worst. They're not malicious, they're only reckless and stupid. But, when you combine the reckless and stupid ones with the malicious and dangerous ones and then you add on the ones with alcohol and drug problems, you've got a frightening situation. That's what we have in the US today and all the bluffing and boasting on the part of gun-rights fanatics is not going to change that.
What's your opinion? Please leave a comment.
MikeB: "Can anyone tell me how such a thing is possible?"
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't think mistaking the gas pedal for the brake is possible, yet people somehow do it.
But, driving fanatics aren't continually telling us how responsible drivers are.
DeleteIt pains me to agree with you but I think this is a legitimate gripe of yours.
ReplyDeleteOne must violate at least 2 of the 4 basic rules of gun safety for this to happen.
The answer is to reinforce the 4 basic rules at every opportunity.
You do know the 4 basic rules, right mikeb?
Of course I do. In fact, I'd say I know them better than a lot of gun owners.
DeleteHe arrived early to play guitar, but decided to clean his gun? These stories never make sense. Glock's design requires pulling the trigger to release the slide from the frame, as does the Springfield XD, so with that kind of gun, checking the chamber is something to do several times.
ReplyDeleteBut Mikeb, how often do accidents like this happen? How often do people have accidents with many other objects and activities? Your obsession with guns blinds you to the fact that life is dangerous, and some people are clever about finding ways to hurt themselves.
Greg, I'm actually into toaster accidents, too. I'll probably start a blog about them. But meantime, we're talking about guns. Is that OK with you?
DeleteOf course it is, and I have done so. I do think that when we try to separate guns out of all the other dangerous objects in this world, we distort the true picture. Life is dangerous, and being responsible reduces the danger.
DeleteThe difference between us is that your solution is to pass a law, while mine is to call for greater personal responsibility.
Greg, that "call for greater personal responsibility" has already gone out. It's not working.
Delete"But Mikeb, how often do accidents like this happen? How often do people have accidents with many other objects and activities?"
ReplyDeleteGreg Camp, per his usual m.o., dishonestly frames his question. It is impossible to know how many accidents happen. It is possible to know how many people wind up dead every (or as nearly so as current reporting methods allow) from fuckin' round wit teh gunz.
Barstools, which some people have misadventures with; lawnmowers, chainsaws and other tools, the use of which results in the careless being injured (I know, it's happened to me); propane fired appliances which are fuelled and serviced by people who do it wrong and blow up things--and themselves and teh gunz. Which is the odd man out, here?
If you said, "teh gunz", ding,ding,ding; give that man a lollipop!
Yep, allathem other "dangerous" things are only dangerous when used improperly. Gunz, otoh, are dangerous regardless of whether they are used properly or not. The logical solution to the problem of people shooting themselves is to make SURE that they understand how to use AND are willing to comply with those 4 rules you gunzloonz consider commandments (and like a good many folks, re: the 10 Commandments, honor as it suits your agenda).
If I want to drink myself to death, eat too much or do a lot of drugs that are not prescribed for a medical condition or have a "stupident" while using a device or pursuing an activity in a way which is idiotic--then I might come to harm. Obviously if I combine any stupid or dangerous use/activity with being in public, i.e. driving a car, then there are consequences that involve/might involve other people's lives; that's why we have, for instance, motor vehicle laws.
Greg Camp and his gunzloonzpalz want to be able to do stupid shit that endangers themselves and VERY, VERY OFTEN others, and take no responsibility. Typical sociopathic behavior.
A lawn mower is dangerous by its nature. It wouldn't work otherwise. I heard a proposal right after 9/11 that we should have non-explosive jet fuel. Of course, jet fuel isn't jet fuel unless it has a high energy density, but we mustn't let chemistry get in the way of clamoring for safety.
ReplyDeleteThe best analogous product to guns is alcohol. A person can go a whole life without using either, and both are dangerous when used irresponsibly, but life is more interesting with them, and they both can be used in beneficial ways. We have tried to control both without much success. We've become sane in many places about alcohol--enjoy it when you're an adult, but if you screw up, there will be consequences. We're still a bit nutty about it. I live in a dry country, and alcohol isn't sold on Sundays, for example, but there's a ballot measure being proposed to change the former. The same can be true about guns. Get over the simplistic desire for control and the magical thinking that says that they fire themselves, and we can move on to requiring owners to be responsible for their actions, while allowing actions that harm no one to happen freely.
" I heard a proposal right after 9/11 that we should have non-explosive jet fuel."
ReplyDeleteCitation required. Do you really think something as stupid as that would not get laughed out of the news in about thirty seconds?
"The best analogous product to guns is alcohol."
Not that I agree with that assertion, but it's refreshing to see that you aren't going to immediately go to the fallacy of, "Oh, yeah! Cars! and shut up that's why".
Alcohol IS tightly regulated, that people break laws about it does not discourage the various levels of government from codifying rules around its manufacture and use. If you drive drunk and have or cause an accident (assuming you're convicted) you will pay a penalty up to and including prison time. You will also face a loss of your privilege to operate motor vehicles for varying lengths of time and you'll face higher insurance premiums--especially if your carrier paid out a large sum of money to litigants/legal fees. That's all to the good.
Contrast that with accidentally shooting someone. As a number of mikeb302000's posts have demonstrated, those "stupidents" do not automatically result in the arrest, indictment, conviction and detention of the shooter.
See if you can find a jurisdiction in the U.S. where drunk driving, resulting in an accident involving extensive property damage, serious injury or death does NOT result in the drunk driver being severly penalized. Alternatively, see if you can find a jurisdiction where drunken behavior, other than driving, which results in an accident or deliberate act involving extensive property damage, serious injury or death does NOT result in the drunk being severly penalized.
Take your time; just make sure that you have some data to back up your most recent ridiculous assertion before you make another one.
This;
"Get over the simplistic desire for control..."
is a lie. There is no "simplistic desire for control". Your statement is either a lie out of your own mouth OR you are simply parroting NRA talking points.
This:
"and the magical thinking that says that they fire themselves...".
is completely the opposite of what Mike or I or any poster on this blog thinks. We are well aware that gunz, by themselvez, do nothing. Put one in the hands of a shithead and bad things begin to happen. The idea of sane regulation of firearms is to limit the number of shitheadz wit teh gunz. You could be more wrong, but it would take serious work.
I've told you that I'll leave, if you can prove that I've lied. My assessment of your position is that it's a simplistic desire for control. That's my judgement based on reading the proposals advocated here. I can't help it that you refuse to use the word, lie, correctly.
DeleteThink about about it. He decided to clean his gun in the parking lot at the bar? I would believe that he was playing around with it there, maybe showing off, but cleaning it?
ReplyDeleteI think most of these "gun cleaning" incidents are nothing more than covers for people doing stupid things with weapons.
I agree Mark. Shooting oneself is by definition stupid.
DeleteYou what the strange thing is? He was formerly in the military having been exposed to all types of weaponry. Furthermore, he's currently a private investigator. Probably more of a private dick!
ReplyDelete